Tanager seeking repossession although I am meeting current payments in full and reducing old arrears

newtothis said:

I know for a fact they told someone else in the same circumstance that the only thing they were interested in was the asset: pure lies to one of us.

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It is very unlikely that they said that to anyone. I think that your friend misunderstood. They can't do anything with the asset except sell it.

Brendan

I tell you that I am not as stressed as I was before my first post. I wonder how many others are in the same situation and don't have anyone to talk to? It's great to see the optimism and determination that you all have. We will get through this!

Ill tell ye one guys. I pay €120 per week direct debit which ammounts to €520 per month over a 52 week period.one of the admin girls rang me one day and says im only paying €480 per month.I disputed this but she said thats not the way we calculate our payments.The following week i get another call,the girl says your paying a loan of €120 per week which is €520 per month,we have to know what this loan is for?.So i replied and said thats your mortgage payment,,,,,oh she said we didnt realise,,,,,,idiots!

Brendan Burgess said:

It is very unlikely that they said that to anyone. I think that your friend misunderstood. They can't do anything with the asset except sell it.

Brendan

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Exactly - the interest is in selling it: I should have said the interest was in "the value of the asset". The essence of the conversation reported to me was that they weren't interested in doing deals, there was an underlying asset and the person involved could do it the easy way (voluntary surrender) or the hard way, but either way they would get it. The circumstances were different (the people involved couldn't afford full payments), but what was striking to me was that it completely contradicted what I was told by the same people. We were told they weren't interested in anything other than buying and selling loans and had no interest in repossession. I actually don’t care which is correct: my take away was that you can’t trust anything they say.
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vicvol1 said:

I tell you that I am not as stressed as I was before my first post. I wonder how many others are in the same situation and don't have anyone to talk to? It's great to see the optimism and determination that you all have. We will get through this!

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I'm glad it's been of help in reducing stress levels. What I find really disturbing is in how people can cope if they are not used to dealing with situations like this. I've 20+ years’ experience in business, including dealing with banks and negotiating deals of various kinds, and I've found it very stressful. Mind you, in the early stages that experience was a mixed blessing: I kept trying to treat the situation as with any other business situation I've encountered. It took quite a while before it sank in with me just how incompetent and sometimes bizarre the behaviour of the banks is in handling this (bizarre in that they frequently don't seem to behave in their own best interest). Add to this the downright dishonesty and lies (I don't use these terms lightly) and it makes for a challenging situation. I can well believe it would be devastating to anyone in the slightest bit vulnerable. I'm well on the way out the other side now and have luckily not had to attend any courts, but to be honest I would actually have welcomed the opportunity to have some 3rd party take a look. It's safe to say that judging by the reports from the courts described on this site a more than fair hearing is given to anyone who engages and tries to do the right thing.

It would be worth noting that if you are in contact with looking for advice from a pip, financial advisor, another lender etc., that you ask them for confirmation that you are able to pay your mortgage/arrears. This would be good to take to court if needed.

Hi Vic

Good idea.

Here are potential interpretations of your situation

1) You are solvent in that you are meeting your repayments as they fall due.
2) You are insolvent because you are unable to clear the arrears in full today
3) You are insolvent because your mortgage is worth more than the value of your assets.
4) Tanager will argue that you are solvent because if you sell your home and give them the proceeds, they will write off the shortfall.

I would imagine that a PIP would tell you that you are so close to solvency that you should not go for a PIA.

But it would be useful to get a letter from the PIP along the following lines:

"Dear Vic

Having studied your figures, it's clear to me that you are not insolvent and that your mortgage is sustainable. It's also clear to me that you have been making every effort to pay your mortgage and have been gradually clearing the arrears.

I would recommend that you ask Tanager to capitalise the arrears and extend the term, so that your mortgage is sustainable

This is a far better solution for both the lender and the borrower than a PIA. "

The Court Registrar or Judge would be impressed by that and would ask Tanager why they did not follow that suggestion.

Just been informed by lapithus that because i am not making full payments, currently paying €120 per week,should be €150 per week,i dont qualify for any of their debt restructuring tools.Cannot capitalise arrears,cannot extend term,no debt forgiveness.My current balance is 185,000,i said i had spoken to a pip and we was proposing to write €120,000 off the loanThe agent on the phone said "personal insolvency is a drastic measure" i replied " is it as drastic as losing your home".I mean you cannot win with these people

Well, it seems that due to the increase in property value in this last year alone, my property value is on par with my total debt. This is the first time since 2008 that I'm finally in the green, equity wise.
Does this strengthen my position as i continue to make full mortgage payments, address arrears, and have positive equity?
Does the fact that I'm borderline solvent work for me or against? I think that this may be why they are adamant to not negotiate and get me in court... I hate going on about it but no sooner than I figure it out, something else comes up. Mind you, I'm glad to be in positive equity, a bit of a boost.

Hi Vic

From their point of view, it doesn't make that much difference. ( A lot of commentators talk rubbish about banks waiting for houses to move into positive equity and then they move. But there is no evidence of that.)

From the court's point of view, it doesn't make that much difference either. If you are engaging and making your payments, and don't try to pull a legal trick on them, the court won't grant an order against you.

From your point of view, obviously it does matter.

1) if Tanager offer you a deal to settle the mortgage for 80% of its nominal value, you might be able to remortgage. (Very unlikely though if you still have arrears.)
2) If they offer you a deal, you could sell the house to avail of it and be left with cash in your pocket.
3) You won't be able to avail of a PIA as the loan could not be written down below the market value of the house. (Likewise bankruptcy is probably out for you as well.)
4) In talking to the Registrar or the Court, you can make the additional argument that you have reduced the potential loss faced by Tanager as the property is in positive equity.

Brendan

The first port of call for anyone facing re-possession proceedings or the appointment of a receiver is a Personal Insolvency Practitioner.

Just go to the Insolvency Service of Ireland for further guidance. There is a possibility of a PIA achieving a substantial write down in your mortgage.

Jim Stafford

Brendan,

From what Vicvol1 has told us re her/his case it's highly unlikely that any judge would grant Tanager a possession order! In regards to pulling any legal trick ? It's not about pulling any legal tricks! Surely its better to make yourself aware of any possible legal point as to which you can question the very legalities of any point put forward by tanager and this includes their paperwork which they have presented to the court.

Remember the courts are there for both sides despite what the banks and vulture funds think and all solicitor s have a duty of care to the court etc..however quite a number seem to conveniently forget that.

Furthermore Tanager bought whatever they bought for a discount of 60/80%, so why not negotiate from there?

Let me just say this, they are ruthless, and will do anything to get your property. And I mean anything. If you are receiving letters giving you a court date, then get bloody prepared for what’s to come. Do not wait around thinking that it will be ‘alright’. Get a PIP, PIA. Doesn’t matter how good or bad they are, get one, and I would strongly suggest you set up a meeting with a solicitor to ask about the ‘what ifs’. Please do this! Act now, prepare for all the possible outcomes, make sure all your paperwork is accurate and tight. Know that you will be in court for a number of sittings, that Tanager is throwing everything they can to win a repossession order. if you know nothing about the court system, or have no knowledge on how it works, start educating yourself. The idea that somehow Tanager is ‘not able’ ‘doesn’t have a chane’ Etc is beside the point. Get prepared, do the work, don’t give in when everything is falling down around you. Please, all of you who have dealings with these animals, take my cents worth. Go and seek legal advice from a solicitor. Be prepared. And to Tanager who I know trolls this forum.... I’m coming to get you!

Sorry if i sounded a bit militant there!.But i stand by what i say,,people standing as a group are stronger than one on their own.Highlighting their behaviour and having there name mentioned more and more in public newspapers and forums will make it harder for them to continue what they are doing.