Standardised testing in the country's primary schools!

Whats the thought on this?? I was of the opinion that this would lead to better educated students and therefore a better educated population. Could only be better for the country, No??
Why are the teachers up in arm's over it?
Is this another case of overpaid underworked public servants not wanting to get their work checked?? Surely we have a right to know that our tax dollars are being put to good use!?

Frankly I think it is a barmy idea and I'm horrified about the idea of 7 year-olds being subjected to state exams and all the hubbub and stress (mainly from over-excited parents) that this entails. Let kids grow up at their own pace. Every child deserves a childhood.

I'm definitely with Tommy on this. One of the few things the country does well is primary education (despite the apalling state of the school infrastructure), why mess with it? I thought the whole idea of leaving a child with the one teacher all year is so that that teacher can get a real feel for how each child is progressing and employ a much more personal approach. I'd hate to see this kind of testing, which makes children into units to be processed through a categorising filter.

If they want to do something to improve primary schooling, I think they should get the schools and equipment up to scratch first.

Rebecca

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All this will achieve is a generation of pupils who are good at doing tests.

Re: .

I thought it was a good idea but the age may be a bit young. Would it not benefit children who have poor teachers? These lacklustre teachers could be found out and made improve on their teaching methods and students grades. Im sure we've all had some teacher who could be seen not to be doing his job properly. I had a few in secondary and seen the effects of a poor teacher on entire classes of students in my primary school!

Re: .

The real question is how will the resulting information be used - I'd be very pessimistic about the chances of poor teachers being addressed.

I would have agreed with Tommy in the past but have changed my mind on it.
There are some desperate teachers and principals out there and the only way this will be found out is through a test system of some sort.
A lot of parents agree with teh idea including teh parents council of the school that our two kids go to.

Hi jem

I see where you are coming from but if these tests come in the bottom line is that children (both in good schools & bad schools) will be pressurised to perform. I can't see how that can be good for them. Any teacher with an underperforming child will be able to defend themselves by saying that is because the child isn't bright - which will mean that the child may be labelled as an underachiever, even at seven years old!

There surely are other ways of assessing teacher performance that don't impact on the children themselves - for example, quality assurance systems that require teachers to record classwork and monitor ongoing pupil performance throughout the school year, with regular inspections and audits of individual cases to ensure that these are maintained in accordance with standards.

It can also result in ghettoising poor schools in poor areas. If a school does badly in the tests, parents will starting switching their kids to other schools, the school will lose resources and do even worse in the next round of tests etc etc - a vicous circle.

... and many schools won't want to take on troubled or difficult children because it would affect their results...

There surely are other ways of assessing teacher performance that don't impact on the children themselves - for example, quality assurance systems that require teachers to record classwork and monitor ongoing pupil performance throughout the school year, with regular inspections and audits of individual cases to ensure that these are maintained in accordance with standards.

Absolutely, surely this is a much better way forward than subjecting 7 year olds to stressful and unnecessary state exams.

Maybe a test in 6th class?? Just to gauge the perfomance of teachers without putting much pressure on the kids. They will inevitably have to do an entrance exam for secondary so this could be practice for that as well as keeping an eye on teacher performance.

They will inevitably have to do an entrance exam for secondary

Click to expand...

Weren't these banned a few years ago? I thought it was illegal for secondary schools to choose students based on tests or exams.

Was it the case that there was a Primary Cert years ago? It seems amazing that we do away with it and then try to re-introduce it in a different form years later.

Yes, entrance exams for incoming secondary school students are illegal under the 1998 Education Act.

This is another daft idea from Dempsey. The real issue is the state of schools, in particular primary schools, and this is just another example of the Government trying to deflect our attention away from the huge underinvestment in education over the past few years.

Standardised tests are already being used in primary schools.

While I accept that there are some poor teachers, the vast majority are dedicated and do a huge amount of voluntary work.

There are some poor Gardaí, Solicitors, Ministers etc. etc.

If things continue as they are (low capital investment, no recognition of voluntary work, high pupil/teacher ratio, inflation in the education sector of 5-6%) education in this country will change for the worse within the next ten years.

mad idea

have to say I also think this is a daft idea. The whole purpose of primary schooling is to get kids involved in education, get them enjoying it - and teach the basics.

Apart from the dreadful state of some schools, the govt has left funding for all sorts of essentials with the parents through jumble sales and voluntary contributions. Result? Schools in rich areas have great resources, schools in poor areas none. If we are to have an extra tax, which this effectively is, surely the dosh raised should be spread around.

One of the things that really gets me is the lack of investment in sport and exercise at this level. Even kids games like skipping are banned in a lot of schools due to the 'insurance problem'. Then the Minister for Health complains we're raising a nation of couch potatoes, and quotes rising obesity rates in kids. But where the hell CAN they play safely?

This idea of testing is just to take the focus off the real issues in primary ed.

Re: assessing the students' performance

I asked my 12 year-old niece about this. She has been tested using the Drumcondra Test every year since 3rd class. Every child in the school takes the test. They were given the tests unexpectedly each year. They saw it as just something they did, nothing more nothing less. There was no great fanfare before the exam was taken. She did say that the tests (English and Maths) were quite long.

Of course, what is relevant is what will be done with the information. They will be worthwhile if they help to identify students who have fallen behind and if resource teachers will be provided to help them.

Marion :hat

Re: assessing the students' performance

I have second hand experience of this ... from a school near where I live who select the weakest children in the class every year and send them off to be psycologically tested ... in order to maintain the number of special needs/classroom assistants they have. The school in question has a roll of 32 and a staff of eight ... enough said.

Standard Tests

If I understood the point of these tests I might be able to comment. Is it to test the kids learning ability, or to test the teachers teaching ability?

If it's to test which kids need special attention then their teachers should know that already. I've taught small groups of 7 to 15 year olds for very shot periods of time and you can tell within minutes which ones are catching on and keeping up. How much easier would it be if you had a class for a whole year or longer?

Isn't there testing already? I did Drumcondra tests in school. There was no big deal like there is with the leaving cert. You just did it.

I think what this is about is the possibility that tests that are already being done might be available to the department, and so the schools reputation might ride on them. In that instance I can well imagine kids being forced to drill to get the "Best" score for the school, rather than the "Correct" score for their ability.

At the end of the day the quality of students coming out of Irish Primary and Secondary schools is good. It's certainly not a national crisis. Let's fix some of the things that are broken in Irish society before we start screwing with the things that work.

-Rd

Testing

As far as I can see these tests are just making compulsory the Drumcondra tests which most schools do anyway. I have three kids in primary school and they do the tests every year from senior infants up. It's all kept fairly low key. The teachers give the results at parent teacher meeting or earlier if the parents request it. I find it useful to see everything is okay. The main purpose from the schools point of view seems to be to assess how many kids qualify for resource/remedial help. They have to score less than 10% in the tests to qualify. As long as the same low key approach is maintained I can't see any problem with the testing.