South County Dublin Planning permission for Shoemra to be Creche?

P

pamurph

Registered User
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11
Hi,

I'm in an estate in South County Dublin and have a question about planning permission.

Our neighbours are currently building an outhouse/shomera room (not sure which yet) in the back garden to operate a creche (5-10 kids).

The question I have is whether they needed planning for this?

I know depending on the size (40 sq m??) you do not require planning but what about if they will be running a business from it?

I did not see a notice and have a sneaking suspicion that they are just going to go ahead anyway.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Re: Planning permission?

Change of use requires planning permission
 
Re: Planning permission?

Do a search on the local authority web site for planning applications/decisions.
Just search on the street/road name and it will come up there if it was applied for and/or granted. They cant just run a creche in the outdoor building like that!
 
Re: Planning permission?

if they are looking to run a business from their home then absolutely they need permission
 
Re: Planning permission?

A creche would need both planning permission and a fire safety certificate.

Only a detached garage/shed can be built without planning up to 25sq m.

Sounds like this structure definitely needs planning permission.
 
Re: Planning permission?

Thanks for the replies.
I have searched for the road and they haven't applied for planning. Can they just build it and apply for retention? Sorry if that is a stupid question, I just dont know what to do. From knowing them for a while, they are the kind of people that will just do it anyway without permission, so I just dont know what my options are.

Thanks
 
Re: Planning permission?

pamurph said:
Thanks for the replies.
I have searched for the road and they haven't applied for planning.
Click to expand...

How long is the creche in operation for? May not require planning (change of use) if running for over 7 ?? years and no complaints made. Also is minding more than 4 children they have to be registered with the healthboards. Umm. According to this [broken link removed] they can even get a grant of 25K to improve services. Might not be much you can do.
 
Re: Planning permission?

Just contact the planning department to ask them what your neighbours is doing since there is no PP outside their house, if they don't know they would send someone to double check the story. It happens to us when we were building a garage at the back of our garden, we did not notify the council as we were building less than 25sq metre but we did inform our next door neighbours about our plan but did not inform all the estate and one of them (noisy personn) call them to ask what we were doing and someone from planning permission came to our house to check what we were doing and took measurements etc.. The guy told us that it had happens that they ask people to take down the building if it doesn't comply with the PP rules
 
Re: Planning permission?


Towger,
It is a new creche that they are building, only working on it at the moment, which is why I am checking now.
I'll talk to the council.
 
I think if they have 6 children or less in the creche it is exempt. In Fingal area this is the case anyway, (or was 2 years ago)
 
In addition to the structure being a maximum of just 25m2 - it must be 'incidential to the enjoyment of the house'... (such as a garage, shed, greenhouse, store or similar structure). Therefore, operation of a creche would not qualify under the exempted development regulations.

I suggest writing a letter to the council - addressed to the planning enforcement officer. I understand they must take action if it is in written form.
 
The structure they are building to the rear of their house requires planning permission if it is over 25 square metres in size, as stated previously. It must also not reduce the amount of private open space to the rear or to the side of the house to less than 25 square metres. If it has a tiled or slated roof it must not exceed 4 metres in height and in any other case it must not exceed 3 metres in height. The structure can only be used for a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the house - but not for human habitation. So if the structure itself goes against any of this - it definately needs planning permission. This is what the planning regulations say.

In relation to the activity of childminding, the Regulations set out that a person can mind no more than 6 children (including their own if they have any) in the house of the person. So even if they were only to mind 6 kids, this must be done in their house - not a purpose built structure. So the use itself needs planning permission. There are also lots of planning issues to consider with what they are doing e.g. access issues, fire safety, vehicular drop-off point, hours of operation, outdoor play areas, traffic issues etc...

South Dublin County Development Plan also states that:-

Under the following circumstances, planning permission for such uses [including Childcare provision] may be granted;
​
(iv) detached houses or substantial semi-detached properties are the most suitable for childcare provision. Applications for such uses will be assessed, having regard to the likely effect on the amenities of adjoining properties and the availability of space for off-street parking and/or suitable drop-off and collection points, outdoor play space, etc.;

Sorry for my VERY long winded post. I just had the information available and thought it might be of help! ​
 
The nature of the business is also relevant. AFAIK, there's a high technical specification for creches in the areas of safety, security, hygiene etc.

While there seems to be a blind eye turned to most informal childminding services, someone looking to operate a fully-commercial creche with five children in the middle of a housing estate without planning permission is only inviting attention from the authorities.

A creche is not the sort of business you can operate discreetly. Parents/minders will come and go, inevitably block driveways etc. It's only a matter of time before the matter's reported. Might save everyone a lot of hassle if it was nipped in the bud.
 
Thanks everyone for all of the replies! As staples suggests, I will need to nip it in the bud. Just in case anyone was wondering, I do like kids but the disruption this would cause is more impoprtant!
 
also - I think the health board would need to provide some sort of sign off for a creche and that there are restrictions on the number of children within a particular size..
 
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