Solicitor's Charges For Will

[Lex Foutish]

Mrs. Foutish and myself made a will years ago and, from what I remember, we didn't have to pay anything to do so. Our circumstances have changed since then and we need to revisit the will to make alterations.

I'm wondering, in the current climate where solicitors' earnings are less than the were a few years ago, if solicitors generally are charging for such work now.

Also, how much do they charge when someone dies and the will is sorted out by them? Is it a percentage? Is it a fixed amount? Thanks.

 

[T McGibney]

Also, how much do they charge when someone dies and the will is sorted out by them? Is it a percentage? Is it a fixed amount? Thanks.

That's the question you need to ask. Its easy for a firm to offer 'cheap will' or 'free will' deals if they routinely charge massive sums to process wills following death.

 

[Padraigb]

You can avoid any problem about fees for executing a will by declining to have a solicitor named as executor in the will (some solicitors, when drafting wills, routinely suggest themselves as executors). Name a beneficiary or a trusted person who has some cop-on as executor, and that person can either execute the will directly, or shop around to get a good deal from a solicitor.

 

[Gekko]

Some credit unions have affiliated solicitors that offer a free will service to the CU's members. Just follow Padraigb's advice above and the solicitor shouldn't automatically be involved with the post death process.

 

[mf1]

There are ( at least) two schools of thought on the "pricing structure" for making wills for clients.

1. Charge what it costs - so the time taken to interview clients, ascertain their situation ( married, single, widowed, divorced, whether they have children and if those children are dependant), details of their assets, take their instructions as to what they want to do ( this will vary from oh, I don't know- what do you think? to the weirdest and most outlandish proposals), advise on the appropriate legislation, draft the wills, make the appointments( I have one client who has made and cancelled ( at very short notice) three appointments ), meet clients, execute wills, discuss whether they wish to hold their originals themselves or have the office do it, raise the invoice, get paid etc.,etc and charge accordingly.

With some clients this could easily run into many hundreds of euro. There are clients , be they elderly or just cussed, who see nothing wrong with spending the entire morning with a solicitor going through the ( for example) entire contents of their bookshelf, jewellery box, wardrobe, garden shed etc.,etc and carefully naming and disbursing each item. Or going through the merits and faults of each of their children, cousins, nephews and nieces etc.,etc trying to decide who will get what.

2. Charge a flat rate for e.g. will for single person no children, will for single person with children, married with dependant children, married with overage children, and take your chances on the time each one will take.

My experience is that very few clients want or expect their solicitor to be an executor. As such they (or rather, their executors ) are free to take up the Will on the death of the Testator and either deal with the Probate themselves or approach a number of firms and ask them to "pitch" for the Probate.

My experience ( and I am open to correction) is that the practice by a solicitor of automatically inserting the name of the solicitor as executor is rare.

Equally, I have personal experience of being asked by a client to act as an executor in circumstances where they do not feel that their beneficiaries would be able to cope.

As such, there is little or no relationship between the cost for the client of making a will and a solicitor's fees for dealing with the estate on death.

As regards solicitors' fees for dealing with an estate, there is a great deal of competition out there and shopping around will yield the best results. Bearing in mind that personal recommendation from a satisfied client is a very good starting point.

mf

 

[T McGibney]

Even where solicitors arent named as executors, if a solicitor holds a will, they will normally get the job of processing the will post-death. In theory, executors should shop around, in practice many don't. This is why 'cheap will' or 'free will' deals are so attractive to some legal firms. Caveat emptor.


ps post crossed with mf's (as usual) excellent advice. In selecting a solicitor for drafting a will or processing a will post-death, I agree that its hard to beat personal recommendation from existing satisfied clients, even if it means paying a reasonable, modest fee to get the will drafted in the first instance.

 

[Gekko]

Charge what it costs - so the time taken to make the appointments raise the invoice, get paid etc

Do you think that it's appropriate to charge clients for billing and setting up appointments (i.e. admin/back office functions)?

I don't - That's the kind of stuff that gives professionals a bad name.

 

[T McGibney]

Do you think that it's appropriate to charge clients for billing and setting up appointments (i.e. admin/back office functions)?

I don't - That's the kind of stuff that gives professionals a bad name.

The client ends up bearing the cost of admin/back office functions regardless of the basis for calculating their bill. All firms must take these costs into account when setting their pricing policies, whether they charge set fees or by the hour.

 

[mf1]

Do you think that it's appropriate to charge clients for billing and setting up appointments (i.e. admin/back office functions)?

I don't - That's the kind of stuff that gives professionals a bad name.

Who else pays for the time taken to do those things? My only source of income is professional fees for providing a service. Those fees come from only one source, the clients.

If you actually do an analysis of the cost of providing a service, those are some of the very real costs that need to be factored in.

mf

 

[Lex Foutish]

Thanks for all the replies. And the good advice. A solicitor friend of ours has recently moved back to Cork so I think I'll give her a shout about it and talk it through with her.

What would happen if we made a new will with her? Would we have to inform Solicitor A or would the newer will just kick in automatically in the event of death?

 

[mf1]

"What would happen if we made a new will with her? Would we have to inform Solicitor A or would the newer will just kick in automatically in the event of death? "

If Solicitor A is keeping your original will for you, it would be regarded as courteous and polite to notify him/her that you have made a new will and that the old will should be forwarded to you. You can then destroy it yourself. Most solicitors are wary of destroying a client's will.

Otherwise they are providing a free storage facility for you for something that does not need to be stored. The newer will will kick in automatically but I am assuming that that won't be for many years so..........

mf

 

[Mpsox]

Changed mine recently after the birth of smallie 2 and our solicitor didn't charge us.

 

[Lex Foutish]

"What would happen if we made a new will with her? Would we have to inform Solicitor A or would the newer will just kick in automatically in the event of death? "

If Solicitor A is keeping your original will for you, it would be regarded as courteous and polite to notify him/her that you have made a new will and that the old will should be forwarded to you. You can then destroy it yourself. Most solicitors are wary of destroying a client's will.

Otherwise they are providing a free storage facility for you for something that does not need to be stored. The newer will will kick in automatically but I am assuming that that won't be for many years so..........

mf

Excluding dodgy knees and ankles, MF, I hope you're right!

 

[Gekko]

The client ends up bearing the cost of admin/back office functions regardless of the basis for calculating their bill. All firms must take these costs into account when setting their pricing policies, whether they charge set fees or by the hour.

Who else pays for the time taken to do those things? My only source of income is professional fees for providing a service. Those fees come from only one source, the clients.

If you actually do an analysis of the cost of providing a service, those are some of the very real costs that need to be factored in.

mf

I'm well aware of how fees are structured.

MF1's post implies that when he or she is billing a client on an "on the clock" basis, he or she charges them for issuing the fee.

That is outrageous in my view.

I'm referring to timesheet based billing. I wouldn't dream of charging time incurred in relation to billing and fee chasing. That admin/back office stuff should be built into your charge out rate in the first place.