Solicitor fees for extraction of grant of probate

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Sajsun8

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Can anyone tell me what a reasonable solicitor fee would be for applying for the grant of probate on a very simple estate (small propery, 2 bank accounts, no debt of tax issues). Following the death of my father, there was no will so myself and 3 other siblings are the next of kin and therefore the beneficiaries of assets. I have absolutely no experience of dealing with solicitors up until this point and was advised by an uncle to hand the case over to the solicitor who dealt with the sale of the property when it was purchased. I followed his advise and gave this solicitor as much information ie. bank statements, revenue info etc. I foolishly did not discuss fees at this point (yes I know I should have in retrospect) and she had me sign some document to state that I was happy to allow her to proceed with the application. I realise I should have discussed fees before engaging her but didn't. I emailed and asked her to forward an outline of her fees to me following our first meeting. She emailed me back and she quoted me 3% of the assets plus 23% vat plus outlays. The auctioneers fees will be separate at 1% plus 23% vat plus outlay. My questions are as follows:

Can I question/dispute the fee at this point and ask for a lower rate?
As I mentioned we never discussed fees at our first meeting but her email started with 'we confirm that our fee for extracting grant of probate is...'. I did not agree to the fee of 3% verbally or in writing so is it still a proposal rather than a confirmation?

If I can dispute the fee at this point and she does not agree to lower the fees, can I disengage her as my solicitor or is it too late for that at this point.

I would appreciate any knowledgable advise from anyone with a legal background or who has dealt with something similar.
 
It's not as simple if there is no will. But yes you have right to stop now if you are not happy with the fees. Doubt you will do better tbh.
 
Sajsun8 said:
is it too late for that
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How much work has been done at this stage?

you can always ask for your file; the odds are Solicitor will bill you for work done to date.

If you are well organised and meticulous DIY probate is very doable.
 
You might reasonably say that you didn’t agree to a fee expressed as a percentage of the value of the estate. She’s obviously aware, having reviewed the contents, that 3% is a sizeable sum in monetary terms.

You could ask for a fixed price for the work she’s done so far and then ask for an estimate of the value of the work yet to be undertaken.

A percentage based fee isn’t a reflection of the amount of work undertaken. Neither, unlike say a personal injuries case, is there any risk being absorbed on her part or any incentive on her to maximise the value of the return to you. It’s a bit cheeky frankly. The estate value is obviously very high.
 
She had an obligation to tell you all the fees before starting. She is exposed legally by failing to do so, you can complain to the Law Society about it. Tell her this, https://www.lawsociety.ie/public/Legal-guides/you--your-solicitor/legal-charges

Then negotiate the fee. I think the going rate is about 1% but if search this website you can find out.

Solicitors who don’t tell people about fees upfront give all of us a bad name.
 
Sajsun8 said:
Can anyone tell me what a reasonable solicitor fee would be for applying for the grant of probate on a very simple estate (small propery, 2 bank accounts, no debt of tax issues).
Click to expand...
A few years ago I was an executor for a similar estate. I got a few prices for probate, none quoted a percentage. The solicitor who did the original will was by far the most expensive. The solicitor I went with quoted €3500 plus vat plus outlays. This was calculated on an estimated 10 hours work at €350 per hour. It actually only took 9 hours and I was only charged for 9 hours and the closing account came with a printout of time spent on consultations, letters etc.

As an example, say a €400k house and €100k in the bank, 3% would mean the legal fee for probate alone would be €15k plus vat and outlays, seems wild to me.

Is it a very low value property and not much in the bank accounts ?
 
Hello,

I have a somewhat similar situation - albeit a little less straight forward.

My father died and the will could not be found. There's a mortgage on the (only) property, a few bank accounts, prize bonds etc.

I was quoted €7.5k ex vat and outlays.

As I know the solicitor in question, and know their work is good, I went with them.

€350 per hour (ex vat) for a senior solicitor/partner, and I think €200 per hour (also ex vat) for a recently qualified solicitor, are the firms standard billing rates.
 
She will have to provide you with all the fees laid out for you to sign in advance of any work being undertaken. I presume it wasn't included in the document you signed. VAT and outlays are standard, 3% is a rip off.
 
thedaddyman said:
She will have to provide you with all the fees laid out for you to sign in advance of any work being undertaken.
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This isn't actually true.


The actual position is as follows:

What if your solicitor doesn’t know what the final charges will be?​

If your solicitor is not in a position to provide you with detailed information on the exact legal costs that will apply, he or she must still issue you with a written Costs Notice.
This must set out clearly the basis of how legal costs will be calculated.
Your solicitor is also required to update you in writing as soon as he or she is aware of the actual charges that you will face.
This means that for some types of legal services, you might receive one Notice of Costs, while for others you might receive two or three.
Alternatively, you may agree with your solicitor the overall amount to be paid for the legal services being provided. This too should be included in a written agreement.
Click to expand...
 
DannyBoyD said:
How much work has been done at this stage?

you can always ask for your file; the odds are Solicitor will bill you for work done to date.

If you are well organised and meticulous DIY probate is very doable.
Click to expand...
So far I have signed papers to say that I am happy to proceed with the application and that I will be the legal administator. This was done one week ago.
 
Sajsun8 said:
So far I have signed papers to say that I am happy to proceed with the application and that I will be the legal administator. This was done one week ago.
Click to expand...

Why not start the conversation now, by dropping her an email and saying that you feel that 3% of the estate is too high (assuming it is, when you work out the approx fee)?

Ask her can she give you an indication of the likely overall fee, based on her experience with other cases?

That will get the conversation started, and give you some additional information on what your solicitor is thinking etc.
 
Des Pondent said:
A few years ago I was an executor for a similar estate. I got a few prices for probate, none quoted a percentage. The solicitor who did the original will was by far the most expensive. The solicitor I went with quoted €3500 plus vat plus outlays. This was calculated on an estimated 10 hours work at €350 per hour. It actually only took 9 hours and I was only charged for 9 hours and the closing account came with a printout of time spent on consultations, letters etc.

As an example, say a €400k house and €100k in the bank, 3% would mean the legal fee for probate alone would be €15k plus vat and outlays, seems wild to me.

Is it a very low value property and not much in the bank accounts ?
Click to expand...
Sajsun8 said:
Can anyone tell me what a reasonable solicitor fee would be for applying for the grant of probate on a very simple estate (small propery, 2 bank accounts, no debt of tax issues). Following the death of my father, there was no will so myself and 3 other siblings are the next of kin and therefore the beneficiaries of assets. I have absolutely no experience of dealing with solicitors up until this point and was advised by an uncle to hand the case over to the solicitor who dealt with the sale of the property when it was purchased. I followed his advise and gave this solicitor as much information ie. bank statements, revenue info etc. I foolishly did not discuss fees at this point (yes I know I should have in retrospect) and she had me sign some document to state that I was happy to allow her to proceed with the application. I realise I should have discussed fees before engaging her but didn't. I emailed and asked her to forward an outline of her fees to me following our first meeting. She emailed me back and she quoted me 3% of the assets plus 23% vat plus outlays. The auctioneers fees will be separate at 1% plus 23% vat plus outlay. My questions are as follows:

Can I question/dispute the fee at this point and ask for a lower rate?
As I mentioned we never discussed fees at our first meeting but her email started with 'we confirm that our fee for extracting grant of probate is...'. I did not agree to the fee of 3% verbally or in writing so is it still a proposal rather than a confirmation?

If I can dispute the fee at this point and she does not agree to lower the fees, can I disengage her as my solicitor or is it too late for that at this point.

I would appreciate any knowledgable advise from anyone with a legal background or who has dealt with something similar.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for all of your valuable replies. Your responses have really helped me to assess the situation and gain some perspective. I deciced to follow @Mr Earl's advice and I sent her an email to say I was not happy with the 3% fee. She called me within 30 minutes of sending the email to say that she would be happy to accecp 1.5% which I will accept. She agreed to send a revised fee proposal and I also asked her to give an estimate of potential outlay which she also agreed to. For those of you asking about the value of the estate I estimate that it will amount to less than €250k. So thanks again for all of your insight, without it I might not have questioned the fee and I am so glad I did.
 
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