Social Justice

Purple

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There’s a lot of talk over the last few years about Social Justice but what exactly do people mean when they use that phrase? It seems to be a catch-all phrase for a more just society which, most would agree, is a good thing. The problem arises when the next question is asked; what is your definition of a just society? For most people justice entails equality under the law and a degree of social engineering to provide equality of opportunity. In this context equality of opportunity means access to education and state services for the poor and those with disabilities (both physical and intellectual) etc.
The problem that I have with the concept of social justice is it seeks not only to engineer equality of opportunity (everyone gets a chance to do well through hard work) but it also seeks to engineer equality of outcome (everyone ends up with the same even if they don’t bother trying). In simple terms it’s communist; “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need”.

The phrase Social Justice was first coined by Jesuit Luigi Taparelli around 160 years ago, based on the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas. Men like Father Charles Coughlin, the 1930’s era American Catholic priest who used radio to preach his message of communism, racism and support for fascism, was also a strong exponent of Social Justice. Giving something a nice name and wrapping it up in a bow doesn’t change what it is. Social Justice requires a very high level of income redistribution (and property redistribution) and that requires a very high level of state involvement in people’s lives. I don’t think that’s a good idea.


A society that does not strive for equality of opportunity and provide a basic social safety net is doomed to fail.
A society that does not strive to allow its citizens to retain the majority of the fruits of their own labour is also doomed to fail.
Put simply, there’s a balance to be struck.

In the 1760’s Jean-Jacques Rousseau published “The Social contract” which, for the first time, theorised that the people were sovereign; it was from them collectively that the state drew it’s authority and power rather from a divinely anointed Monarch. It was possible the most influential document of the last 1000 years and led to the American Revolution and inspired the men who spent 5 months in Connecticut writing the US constitution. It also inspired the French revolution shortly after and in a few years between 1788 and 1800 it had changes the world. In short it is the intellectual bedrock that all modern democratic republics are built on. Once we shift the balance from a position where the people tell the state what to do it a position where the state tells the people what to do we move away from the ideals of a republican democracy.

Social Justice, as defined by the men who coined and then developed the phrase, is incompatible with the principles of a modern liberal democracy.
 
I agree with a good deal of that. Equality is a term bandied about a lot, but the reality is that you either have equality or liberty - you cannot have both. And if that is the choice to be made, then the choice must always be liberty.

Man is not created equal. We all have our various talents and abilities. So equality of opportunity must be the goal.

When equality is the desired outcome (as opposed to liberty), we end up in a bland society where hard work is not rewarded and difference is not celebrated. Such equality is only to be found in countries like The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea, where everyone is equally miserable.
 
I agree there's a balance to be struck but it's difficult to achieve.

There's a distinct and important difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome but it can be difficult to know where to stop in providing the former before you're into the area of the latter.

As a state, we should, by all available means, encourage the development and education of the population and make all reasonable efforts to ensure that barriers to advancement are removed. However, there comes a point (a not very well signalled point) where responsibility for advancement is almost removed from the individual and all they really have to do is turn up and cut the ribbons.

IMHO, equality legislation has gone too far to the point where it unreasonably constrains the freedom of indviduals and businesses. I think the whole equality agenda was given too much latitude at a time when as a state, we had little else to think about. It's about the pursuit of a nirvana that doesn't really exist when you think it through.
 
Agree with what the previous 2 posters say.

For me equality means equal opportunities, not equal outcomes. By definition, if you have equal outcomes, you have inequality of opportunity. Equal outcomes is discriminatory and blatantly unfair.

People tend to forget that we are biological creatures. People tend to think that the human race is different and is above the laws of nature. How wrong they are. The phrase "the Human Race" couldnt be more apt. Like every other biological creature on this planet, and beyond if there are any out there, Darwinian principals i.e. "survival of the fittest" applies.

The aim of society should be to make the Race as fair as possible. A lot of the "social justice" initiatives have the opposite effect and bias the outcome of the Race.
 
If we could, as a society, move from where we are to a better state, what would that state (small 's' intentional) look like, or, in other words, what other country could we aspire to ?

The media are fond of citing other countries and asserting "if they can do that there, why can't we do that here", ignoring the conditioning of history and culture that has us who we are.

We could be Sweden, with a higher level of social repsonsibility and public capital, but our DNA has us resistant to paying taxes, levies, etc.

We could be Cuba, whose health care system is highly rated, but whose drawbacks are well understood.

We could be .. ???
 
We could be Sweden, with a higher level of social repsonsibility and public capital, but our DNA has us resistant to paying taxes, levies, etc.

Interesting that you should mention Sweden, and DNA. Sweden persued a policy of eugenics up until relatively recently.

"A total of 63,000 people, mostly women, were sterilized in Sweden from 1935 to 1975 based on eugenics and the desire to weed out "inferiors" to create a stronger Swedish race."
 
We could be Sweden, with a higher level of social repsonsibility and public capital, but our DNA has us resistant to paying taxes, levies, etc.

In the time of the Vikings, the Swedes were the most blood thirsty violent war mongering people in Europe. Nowdays they are anti-war peace activists.

Like the Swedes, we dont have these alleged traits hard wired into our DNA. All societies have the full range within them, just that at different times in their history, circumstances conspire to give primacy to certain traits. The resistance to taxes is a recent phenomena that came to the fore when the Queen/King of England was the recipient and people thought that not paying taxes to England was patriotic. Nowdays not paying taxes is unpatriotic.

We could be Cuba, whose health care system is highly rated, but whose drawbacks are well understood.

We could be .. ???

Urban myth. Cuba has a much lower life expectancy than Ireland.... and its peers in the Caribbean.
 
Interesting that you should mention Sweden, and DNA. Sweden persued a policy of eugenics up until relatively recently.

"A total of 63,000 people, mostly women, were sterilized in Sweden from 1935 to 1975 based on eugenics and the desire to weed out "inferiors" to create a stronger Swedish race."

And still they put in a decent show at the world cup............
 
And still they put in a decent show at the world cup............

And Swedish women are generally hot....

We should at least be open minded about the programme

Think of all the pajama wearing scangers we wouldn't have to deal with
 
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