Social(ist) Partnership talks break down.

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Purple

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The Socialist Partnership talks have broken down. For the first time in 15 years the government will have to govern.
If the recession is the price we have to pay to restore democracy in this country then it is well worth it.
 
You have to ask, what was the point of the past two weeks? Sounds like it was just a talking shop.
The cabinet could have decided at their two day meeting what their proposals were to cut pay and told the social partners then. A lot of posters on AAM have suggested ideas off the top of our heads to reduce the bill. Probably took them a couple of miutes to think up.
Most public workers are expecting cuts and the public opinion is behind the government so why did they drag it all out?
It has been estimated that the delay was costing €5 million a day in extra borrowing. This whole exercise could have cost us over €70 million so.
 
The Socialist Partnership talks have broken down. For the first time in 15 years the government will have to govern.
If the recession is the price we have to pay to restore democracy in this country then it is well worth it.
You can't really believe that the two Brians, the three Marys, Micheal, Martin, Willie et al will actually fix the country's problems . . given that they caused them. The price of democracy over the last number of years has been incompetence, waste and cronieism; recession is just the latest installment.
 
The vested interest groups have run the country for the last decade, with the ICTU at the head of the table.
 

I have to agree. Also why introduce a deadline of this morning and then bring up the most contentious item i.e. pay 24 hours before the deadline. Wonder if everyone wanted these talks to succeed. Now Cowan can do what he wants, then claim he tried the social partnership model but it failed and so can take on the unions with massive public support. Now the Unions are on the back foot because they must know they don't have public support for industrial action.
 
The Socialist Partnership talks have broken down. For the first time in 15 years the government will have to govern.
If the recession is the price we have to pay to restore democracy in this country then it is well worth it.

So are you saying that we have not had democracy in this country for the last 15 years? In other words the people did not elect the Government?
 
So are you saying that we have not had democracy in this country for the last 15 years? In other words the people did not elect the Government?
We elected a government but it didn't govern. It ceded power to an unelected Polit Bureau called the "Social Partners" where the people only had one vote and no veto and the unelected vested interest groups had 3 votes and one veto (held by "Congress").
 
We elected a government but it didn't govern. It ceded power to an unelected Polit Bureau called the "Social Partners" . .
So do you believe that these same politicians who ceded power and pandered to vested interests, resulting in our current position, will have the acumen to fix this? Surely the countless quangos, independent regulators, dusty and newly commissioned reports, and of course, auction politics tells the tale that their objective is only ever to get reelected and to hold office rather than to govern.
 

I agree. Why does everyone call the " mostly public service unions " the "Social Partners" ? Are the rest of us "unsocial" ? Or not "Partners" ? Naw, we just pay the taxes and live in the real world, where nobody owes anyone a living.
 

I think you are simply wrong by saying we did not have democracy, we did, its just that you did not like the form of Government that it produced.

I find it very difficult to belive that anyone who voted in the last election in 2007 didn't realise what they were getting when they voted. They were getting a continuation of the same policies since 1997. Was Bertie Ahern going to change his ways, hell no! The people are now being rewarded for their own stupidity in not taking enough interest in their own affairs. It begins, and ends with the people and this current period should be a salutory lesson to them. You get what you vote for and in 2007 they voted for the continuation of their greed. Now instead of realising the part they have played in their own demise they turn looking for a scapegoat, and the public service is number one on their list.
 
So do you believe that these same politicians who ceded power and pandered to vested interests, resulting in our current position, will have the acumen to fix this?

Who gave the current politicians the power then? I think you will find its the people!
 

The alternative government, FG and Labour, supported the Polit Bureau system and criticised the government for not spending enough... what real choice have the people had for the last 10 years? Once power was taken from the people by the vested interest groups they were hardly going to give it back. Hopefully the crap hole we are in will wake people up to their obligations as citizens to defend their freedom and not have it chipped away till our democracy is nothing more than a sham.
 
Hopefully the crap hole we are in will wake people up to their obligations as citizens to defend their freedom

I agree, its time the people took their head outta their ass and realised how this country is run.
 
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The cabinet are meeting this morning to discuss the €2 billion cuts required in public spending.
Did they not just do this two weeks ago?
 
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The cabinet are meeting this morning to discuss the €2 billion cuts required in public spending.
Did they not just do this two weeks ago?

Because two weeks ago David Begg and Turlough O'Sullivan were effectively running the country.
 
Who gave the current politicians the power then? I think you will find its the people!
Of course it was the people, but based on promises and commitments made and a forlorn hope that the politicians would(could?) make good decisions. I didn't vote for them but the others are pretty much the same. The Irish political system is a bit of a self-financing closed shop. Hopefully a new domestic political group will emerge although I don't know where from; maybe if Libertas does well in European elections it may spawn a national political force. The Irish 'political classes' are, for the most part, overpaid incompetents.
 
Because two weeks ago David Begg and Turlough O'Sullivan were effectively running the country.

It was Cowen who insisted on including the 'social partners'. The government should have just presented them after their 2 days of talks and if there was not agreement with Begg and co., press on anyway. That is what they are going to do now.
They have spent the past couple of weeks discussing some framework document at the cost of tens of millions of extra borrowings, when it was obvious the most difficult part to reach aggrement on was the actual pay cuts. They left that part until the end.
 
The alternative government, FG and Labour, supported the Polit Bureau system and criticised the government for not spending enough... what real choice have the people had for the last 10 years?

I keep wondering if its time for a brand new political party. I think a new no-nonsense party could prosper. And I dont mean Libertas !
 
Trouble is - so many people are dependant on govt handouts, be they social welfare, fas schemes or public servants - are there enough people left to forget civil war politics / old allegiances and vote with their head ?
 
Well a lot in the country reminded me of the good old GDR (East Germany under the communist) with FF taking the role of the SED and the social partners taking the polit bureau role dictating what has to happen in Goverment.

Most of our infra structure and utilities are owned by the state and competition is run in the same way as someone in the GDR could vote for the Liberal Party but still in the end it was the polit bureau that made the decision. Just look at out electricity market where virtualy ESB runs the show or the gas market where Board Gais is in firm controll or the anti competion practices of Dublin Bus.

While we all were able to express our vote into one form of party in the end most of the govement's agenda and executive action was coming from the social partner talks and while that works great while everyone is getting benefits out of a surplus in bad times (like now) nobody wants to give the benefits they gained in the past years.

So now we are left with a govement with an unelected leader (because the masses voted for Bertie not Cowen) in charge of a non existing coalition (because no more PD's and the green are nothing else than a yes saying enablers like the Liberal party in the GDR) who thinks he is the ruler of this country (ala mugabe) and nobody has the right to ask his goverment questions.

I love this country but we are realy becoming an international joke. The comparison between us and iceland was a valid one, if we would not have been in the Euro Zone we would have had the same problems. And the reaction of the ruling party shows that they have not yet gotten used to actualy being critizied.

So what's next. The ruler is going to tell us at 1600 what his goverment is going to do to address an issue that they created and than ignored for month in the hope that someone else will come up with a solution.

It's time he tells us what he wants his goverment to do, the other parties telling us their approach and than give us a vote. Call elections now so that we can tell you what we want.

Long Live the Party....
 
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