Sister won’t sell the house, wants €50K extra from my half


I couldn't agree more, then the post continues,
mr grumpy said:
She has refused the €10k and has said she’s staying put and is not moving.
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Implying selling up isn't that easy.

mr grumpy said:
what are my options, can I force her via solicitors to sell up?
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Implying a lack of legal expertise in this area.
Equally, I have no legal expertise in this area. But then again, that was not asked for, was it?
Instead

mr grumpy said:
All advice welcome.
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So perhaps instead of focusing in on my advice. You could offer the OP some advice of your own?
 

I've no particular legal expertise in this area, but the basic points are quite simple.

If the will says the property is to be sold then the property is to be sold. (Note that's an if, the OP isn't really engaging enough to get the right advice here, garbage in, garbage out etc...)

By whom? By the executors.

Who are they? The OP and his sister.

If the executors are in dispute, what happens then? It gets legal and expensive. Hence the multiple people on the thread telling the OP he'll win but at a cost.

AFAIK though, and I'm open to correction, the OP as executor is entitled to employ a solicitor in his capacity as executor in order to ensure the will is executed. The cost of which comes out of the estate i.e. half of his legal cost will effectively be borne by his sister (although he has to bear half of hers too).
 
Your sister has refused an offer of €10,000.00, i'd offer her no more unless you feel she deserves more. I'd go to a solicitor and as Sarenco has already suggested, if the sister doesn't want to carry out her legal function as co-executor, have her removed.
 
for my 2 cents worth I would find a way to negotiate with your sister. As I understand your mothers will left you each 50% but you do not mention if there were any conditions set out like house must be sold as example. You can go the legal route and I believe you will win but the financial cost will be high and the damage to your relationship will be bad. Try and see the issue from your sisters point as that can help you understand her stance. in selling will she be able to afford to buy a new home. Does she prefer to stay put and instead buy you out. This is not to say who is right or wrong but if you had a clearer picture of what your sisters feelings are it might help to come to a negotiated settlement and you still stay friendly into the future.
 
If she wants to stay in the house, would she be open to paying you rent on your half? Though I guess this might not be attractive from a tax point of view.
 
If she is in the house currently as executor you are entitled to collect rent from her at market for the beneficiary entitled to 50% namely you. This may help her thinking.
 
Your sister wants a 60/40 split.

I would be of the opinion she has no intention of selling. If you agree to a 50k reduction on your share of €260k, the next step will be for your sister to offer you €210k for your share of the property.

So what, she has been paying €300/month for a few years, its a fraction of what she, and her husband and child, would have paid for, for a half Millon house in rent. I would bet you have being paying more in mortgage repayment in that time, and probably not in the same league as this said house.

Wasn't it great she had her mum to look after for a few years instead of her being put in a home, I would see that as an honor, not a burden to be paid for.

Stop dilly/dallying, you are where you are, and you have seen that your sister and husband have no difficulties in trying to make an idiot of you, wise up.
The will stated 50/50. Stop trying to justify its renegotiation.

You've only been on here twice, and so not engaged much considering all the replies you received. Have any of the replies been helpful to you?
 
My sympathies to you Mr G, that's a horribly messy situation.

I was in a slightly similar situation to your sister in that I moved back in to the family home to care for my father, and there were some complications after he died over the delay in me moving out of the home (due to the tenants in my own house being unable to find new accommodation - it was all resolved in the end).

I, too, would have paid for most of the maintenance of the famiy home after I moved back in (for six years), including gardening and decorating costs, but I never once considered that that gave me a right to a larger share of the proceeds of the sale of the house. I don't believe your sister should either - she was living close enough to rent-free in the home (apart from those small mortgage payments), as I was, so contributing to its general upkeep was the very least she, and I, could have done. If she is arguing that she sacrificed a lot financially she needs to ask herself how much she would have paid in rent for the last 18 years if she had to live elsewhere, especially in more recent times with her husband and child. If she had paid for major renovation work on the property, she might have some argument, but not if it was purely for its upkeep.

Most importantly, though, it would appear that it was your mother's wish that the proceeds from the sale of the house be divided equally between you and your sister. Her wishes should be respected.

I would withdraw your €10k offer to your sister, and inform her of that, and use a solicitor to deal with this from now on. I know it's a pain to have to pay for a solicitor, but I think it would be more than worth it for you. Apart from anything, it will show your sister that you are challenging her on this - she, it would seem, thinks she can force you in to meeting her €50k demand by refusing to agree to the sale of the house. I'm struggling to believe she is legally entitled to do this. She might be unhappy with your mother's will - if she is, let her challenge it and bear the cost of doing so.

I would discuss with your solicitor the possibility of demanding compensation from her for the delay in putting the house on the market, the figure increasing for every passing month. That might make her re-think her actions.

Your €10k offer was most generous - too generous, in my humble opinion - the fact that she rejected it suggests she is behaving far from reasonably in this.

Her sense of entitlement, despite her mother's expressed wishes, is a touch ugly.

Best of luck Mr G, again I would strongly suggest you get a solicitor on to this, I have a feeling your sister will soon learn she is not on solid legal ground.
 
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She is on very weak legal ground if this case ends up being decided on by a judge in the Circuit Court. However that can be avoided by proper mediation once the full financial costs are spelled out to her and she sees sense
 
Solicitor all the way. You are probably going to fall out either way over this if you dig the heels in, with a solicitor involved you can blame them a bit too!!
Honestly , I had a business dispute with some close colleagues a few years back where a couple of guys wanted to buy out the other shareholders, they low-balled us and we got some legal advise as did they, the solicitors cracked our heads together and made us do the deal and we all walked away a bit happier than we started. We are still friends now, if the solicitors hadn't got involved it would have soured a good bit.
I must add the solicitors only took a small fee for mediating and share certs etc. They didn't want to go to court either.
Of course your situation is a family one but an outsiders view can be beneficial.
 
In this situation I'd tell my sister that I'd rather avoid going down the legal route but would if pushed. I'd work out what rental income the house could expect to generate and tell her unless we came to an agreement I'd take the view that she was renting half the house. I'd keep track of the growing rental arrears figure. That said I'd underline that I wanted an amicable solution, that the 10k was still on the table, a line could be put through rental monies, and that I was happy for her to buy out my half. I'd give her six months to make it so.
 
Well, here's an update for you all..... thanks for the replys todate;

My sister found a 3 bed house for sale in the same area as the family home and requested that she'd like to purchase this house but it would cost her the whole of the 50% of the sale proceeds of the family home.

That meant that the outstanding nursing home fees for our late mother & legal fees/estate agent fees etc would all come out of my half of the sale proceeds approx 80k.

I agreed to this just to have the whole mess put to bed. As were not talking to each other solicitors are now involved in all communications between us.

As this was her last chance to find her forever home in the family home area, i presumed that she would be jumping through hoops to make this deal work.

8 weeks later my sister has stopped all communication and the 3 bed house she was looking at has been sold to someone else.

As this is now the case, my solicitor served her notice and legal proceedings commence against her this week.

She's a bad egg and I wash my hands of her.

I'll update you all with any updates as I get them.

Thanks again for all your help, Mr Grumpy.
 

I think this is really unfortunate. Is there any way you can both pull back, and go for some form of mediation? Once solicitors are involved, and especially once legal proceedings start, there's a very good chance things will spiral out of control on costs and you'll both end up with nothing, or next to nothing. The house I'm living in now was purchased after being empty for about 15 years whilst a family dispute was ongoing after the previous owner died: I heard later that about 90% of the value we paid for it was swallowed up in legal fees. I doubt anyone came out of that situation thinking they'd "won", apart obviously from the solicitors. This is not an uncommon outcome of such disputes. If it were me, I'd point this out to your sister, and ask will she accept independent mediation?

You can be fairly sure she thinks you're the bad egg: if you can each accept that neither side is 100% "right", there should be some path to resolution. The advice earlier in the thread to insist on the righteousness of your position and reach for a solicitor as the thing to do was in my opinion appalling advice.
 

- Your sister has had a home for 19 years
- She looked after your mother for 14 years
- She paid €300 a month for 3 years
- she maintained the property
- Costs are 80K, value is 520K = 440K or 220K each.

In exchange for maintining the home and looking after you mother your sister was able to have free housing for 16 years. Plus 3 years at a nominal amount. Even in 1999 €300 was a very low amount. She and her family had the benefit of the maintenance and landscaping while she lived there.

What age is your sister, would she be able to get a mortgage on the home in order to pay you your 220K plus costs of 40K. ie a mortgage of 260K on a property worth 520K.

Once you start legals you run the risk of everything going to lawyers. Maybe you will be lucky and the initiation of proceedings will force her hand.
 
"maintining [sic] the home and looking after you mother your sister was able to have free housing for 16 years"

She worked for it - therefore it wasn't free.

Looking after an aging parent is a job that only gets harder as time goes on. It's no bed of roses.
 

Yes it is a job, and a job that one is either willing to do or not. If she thought she should get a higher payout in the inheritence that was something that should have been agreed up front. And the free housing has a value.

I have never suggested it was a bed of roses, none of us knows what it was like as each case is difference. Maybe it was done for free due to being the right thing to do.
 
Hi MrG

The legal position is very clear, but...

Imagine that you are back in 1999. You and your sister discuss what should be done with your mother who is getting old. Would you offer to move back home and look after her until she dies or goes into a nursing home? You will get free accommodation but you will be looking after your mother.

If your mother says "I will leave the house to whoever moves in and looks after me", would you move back in?

From your brief description, it does sound as if your sister got a raw deal. The mother should have left her more than she left you.

You were right to accept €80k less than she did. It's a pity that she did not go through with that. She probably made an offer but it was turned down.

You have little to lose by going to court. You are getting nothing now. You will probably get nothing after the legal costs have been paid. But she has more to lose as she will lose her free house as well.

Brendan
 
Whether she looked after her mother or not is neither here nor there. The will states you are owed 50% of your mothers entire estate and therefore that is what you should get. I gather she didn't contest it as it's over six months since probate was granted and even if she did she probably would not have been granted any more. If she chose to move in with your mother on the assumption that she'd get the house, then she should have had that conversation with your mother long ago and ensured that was the case. Here's hoping your solicitor is good and that he gets this sorted. I wouldn't offer to take a cent less than you're entitled to now and let all fees and bills be taken out of the overall estate, not just your share. She had her chance and has now gone silent. You no longer have a relationship with your sister so you have nothing to lose, apart from legal fees, but you'd have been down 80k anyway if you'd pandered to her.
 
Marsha25 said:
....so you have nothing to lose, apart from legal fees
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There's the rub - it's quite possible legal fees will wipe out the entire value of the house. Therefore, you've everything to lose by following this advice, which is why I'd recommend you don't. This mightn’t match your opinion of what’s “fair”, but don’t forget there’s someone else who has a different opinion on what’s fair; getting into a legal battle with them is highly likely to leave you both much worse off.
 
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