Sinn Fein - Alternate government

StevieC

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I decided to so something I normally wouldnt do and watch the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis. Maybe it was disillusionment with the status quo, maybe I was hoping they offered something different.

The one thing that struck me was Gerry Adams saying that the wealth wasnt distributed to the nation but the debt is now being through NAMA etc. When I first heard this it sounded quite convincing, but having thought about it a bit now, a few things come to mind;

- We have some of the highest social welfare payments in Europe (many of the increases came in the boom years)
- We brought in a lot of teachers assistants and special needs assistance to our schools, none of which was available in my school days (I know someone will say that they are being let go now, but at least they were there and made an impact)
- While our health system is fair from perfect, it is infinitely better than the USA or even some of our European neighbours (ie Romania, where the nurses wont look after patients unless they are bribed with cash)
- Sure some people made some money but a lot of the weaker in society benefited also, as they say a rising tide lifts all ships.

So what did Gerry really mean, it seems to me that Gerry doesnt really know what goes on south of the border or else he wants a communist state where all wealth is distributed equally regardless of effort or creativity.

Gerry also pointed out that they are in power up north in the power sharing arrangement, he wore this like a badge of honour throughout his speech...anyone who has watched the news in the last few months will realise that the Sinn Fein find it very difficult to work in a powersharing arrangement, it took the combined efforts of Gordon Brown and Brian Cowen to get them to agree on anything up there in relation to policing and parades. What hope have they of agreeing anything with other coalition partners that dont subscribe to their vision of Ireland. Watching newsnight on the BBC it seems very plain to see that the public in the north are just as fed up with their politicians as we are with ours, they want less bickering and more action on real economic issues, ie. jobs.

Also by saying that they wont go into power with either FF or FG, how do they expect to ever get into power by ruling out partnership with the 2 biggest parties. It strikes me that Sinn Fein have no intention of ever trying to make the 26 counties better, they are perfectly happy to just throw tomatoes at those who try and get it wrong than actually do something to make things better themselves. The Greens may be crucified at the next election but at least they recognise that if they want to get their policies implemented in any shape or form then they need to enter government.

Just my thoughts on them, I'd be interested to know how others felt.
 
SF have 'special interest' views, are virtually clueless on many wider socio-economic issues, have no chance or even probably intention of going into government, relish being a thorn in the side of 'the esablishment' as they see it, and their party is comprised of many members with questionable backgrounds.

They are much closer to some sort of lobby group than to a regular political party IMO.
 
He's right, we didn't and don't distribute it evenly, but I'd ask him just how much of the €10K per documentary he distrubted beyond his account? How much of the €100Ks in book royalties he's distributed evenly? And whether he's still drawing down the sitting MP salary in Westminster?

And whether it's really fair to talk about the fact that he only receives the "average industrial wage" from SF and forgetting to mention all his other income streams?

He's right everyone else should get taxed more and distribute more and look after the poor an needy, everyone else but me. I need the new house in Donegal, I need my royalties, but everyone else is just being greedy.
 
SF have 'special interest' views, are virtually clueless on many wider socio-economic issues, have no chance or even probably intention of going into government, relish being a thorn in the side of 'the esablishment' as they see it
I'm not so sure about this. I reckon they would jump at the chance of replacing the Greens as the small party in a Govt next time round, after the Greens follow the PDs to political-party-heaven.
 
I'm not so sure about this. I reckon they would jump at the chance of replacing the Greens as the small party in a Govt next time round,


You may well be right but their policies are so off the wall that it’s hard to see how it would be a positive move for them. If they sign up to a programme for government that isn’t full of 1920’s style communist rhetoric then they will lose credibility with the extremists and nutters that vote for them and if they try to engage in a debate with other parties on real economic or social issues it will shine a light on them for the general public to see just how off the wall their policies really are.
 
- We brought in a lot of teachers assistants and special needs assistance to our schools, none of which was available in my school days (I know someone will say that they are being let go now, but at least they were there and made an impact)

- Sure some people made some money but a lot of the weaker in society benefited also, as they say a rising tide lifts all ships.

the former point can be countered by saying that in my day there were schools for other children (downs syndrome / autistic / children on "the spectrum") these schools were downsized and children integrated and thus SNA's were required. I think it was a good thing and was actually cost effective.

on the latter point the weaker in society are still weaker - i would say that divide is even greater.
 
What 'progressive' policies have SF brought in up north? It seemed to me to be very like a students union conference, lots of hot air but nothing of any import at all. Gerry was found out at the last election as being clueless with regard to real issues in the Republic and nothing's really changed.
Without being partitionist, it's also a bit galling to see him trotted out for 'our' elections when he's not standing for election here.
 
the extremists and nutters that vote for them

I've a sneaky feeling though that SF are going to get a lot more popular, especially in working class areas, even though those who vote for them wouldn't admit it publically ;)
 
So what did Gerry really mean, it seems to me that Gerry doesnt really know what goes on south of the border or else he wants a communist state where all wealth is distributed equally regardless of effort or creativity.

Well they are an extreme socialist party so yes their agenda is equal distribution of wealth regardless of effort.

There is not one iota of recognition amongst socialists that the right of centre approach of the last 20 years has dramatically improve the lot of the poorest in society.

The best thing about the last 10 years was zero unemployment i.e. everyone got a chance to prove themselves. Socialism would work if it was about equal opportunity regardless of background rather than equal spending power regardless of effort.
 
the right of centre approach of the last 20 years has dramatically improve the lot of the poorest in society.
I'm sure you have a pile of evidence to support this claim? Those living in O'Devaney Gardens or Rosemount in Dundrum will look forward to hearing the news of these dramatic improvements.
 
Well they are an extreme socialist party so yes their agenda is equal distribution of wealth regardless of effort.

There is not one iota of recognition amongst socialists that the right of centre approach of the last 20 years has dramatically improve the lot of the poorest in society.

The best thing about the last 10 years was zero unemployment i.e. everyone got a chance to prove themselves. Socialism would work if it was about equal opportunity regardless of background rather than equal spending power regardless of effort.



While I am not a socialist and do not think that socialist policies work in practice I don't think the government of the last 10 years can be held up as poster boys for capitalism. The problem wasn't ideology; the last really good minister for finance we had, other than the current one, was from the Labour Party. The problem was corruption, populism and good old fashioned incompetence. I'd take a competent socialist over an incompetent capitalist any day of the week.

Anyway, all the major parties support the private ownership of capital, they all support a free market economy (to a lesser or greater extent) and they all support a welfare system and a public healthcare system. They may vary on how these objectives should be funded/regulated/delivered but there is commonality on the really big issues so categorising parties as socialist or capitalist is somewhat meaningless (oxymoron intended).
 
I'm sure you have a pile of evidence to support this claim? Those living in O'Devaney Gardens or Rosemount in Dundrum will look forward to hearing the news of these dramatic improvements.

Is this not going ahead now?

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Is this not going ahead now?

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It gets announced about once every 18 months. I haven't heard anything about families actually being moved out, or funding being made available from Dept Environment to rebuild.
 
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