Signing On - Advice needed - to tell or not to tell......

Hello....

My husband is about to sign on for Job Seekers Allowance. Not sure if he will be entitled to anything as he was self employed for the last few years and only an employee since June 2008.

We need a bit of advise with regard to a situation we have with a second house. We are just about to sell a home we had built. Due to a change in circumstances and being unable to sell our current home we were forced to put new home on the market. To be honest we are delighted to be selling even at a loss and it was our dream home. We think we are very lucky and we still have a home. Our query is do we tell the social welfare about this second house that will be sold in a matter of weeks or say nothing. Our worry is that my husband will not be entitled to any assistance if this house is taken into account and it will be not ours in a month.

Hubby is now out of work over a month but refused to sign on as he firstly thought he wouldn't be entitled to anything and also really believed he would have found work at this stage. Our financial situation is bad at the moment only for family helping out.

Hope someone can give us some advise on this!

Dazzles, you dont say what you have to pay when you sell the house? is there a mortgage to be repaid etc. If there isn't I dont see that you have a problem anyway because you will have the proceeds to live off?

On the other hand if you dont have money left from the sale then you would be obliged to inform social welfare of the second home. The reason for this is obvious, you will be signing a declaration that the statement you make is true. As well as that isn't there tax to be paid to the revenue on the sale of a second home?

I dont understand why your husband needs jobseekers allowance then if you are going to have money to live on or have I got all this wrong?

I would only declare it if explicitly required to do so on a form. There is no point in declaring some future gains (you haven't got it in your pocket yet)

My son made an honest mistake on a form when trying to make a claim, it went into the system and basically 3 months later was turned down for benefit. The moral being the less there is on the form the less to go "wrong"

Swallows, thanks for the reply. I don't think I made myself very clear so I will try again. Yes, we do have a mortgage on the property we are selling, and we do have a mortgage on the property we are living in, together that is 500 euro a week in repayments! As I mentioned in my first post we will be selling this property at a loss but still happy to get it off our hands as our circumstances have changed drastically in the last year. My work hours have also been cut and I am on benefit for 1 week per month (which I know will cause other problems for hubby getting his allowance). Hubby also pays over 100 euro in maintenance for his little girl. So to be honest we'r in a bad situation - thankfully I have a wonderful family who have got together to help us with repayments and I know we are so lucky to have that option. Believe me if we were selling the house and had the proceeds to live off I would be one happy camper! There will not be capital gains to pay as it is making a loss. We will be going to our accountant once the sale goes through to see what has to be paid if anything. All our dealings with the revenue (hubby was self employed for number of years) have always been above board and this will be the case for the house also so no worries there.

What I am trying to get across is - when we sell this house we won't have a second home or any profits. I don't see why something should be taken into consideration which will not be applicable in a months time. So for the sake of a month would it be best to hold off signing on? But we could do with money now (living off the credit card). We are not in the habit of lying to get money but the house will probably be sold by the time JA is sorted. Leaving us with a loss of 20,000 euro but still very, very grateful! Who knows....maybe hubby will have got a job by then!

It upsets us both to be in this situation. Neither of us came from money but we worked hard and both got ourselves an education while doing so but it all fell apart so quickly. Sorry for the rant but I think maybe by looking at the bigger picture we might be able to get some advise. We are not trying to get something we are not entitled to - I work with people who are disadvantaged and I thank God everyday for what we have and more importantly the peole we have in our lives. Just want to try and get over these times and get any assistance we can - without leaving ourselves at a loss through not getting advise.

Sorry again (everyone!) for the rant and very long post but I just had a good auld cry and getting all this out has helped! Any advise........

Thank you for that Landmarkjohn - I was so long writing the last post that I didn't see your reply before posting "my rant" - do have a read! Unfortunatley there will be nothing for the pocket after this sale but as I keep saying we are grateful. Sorry to hear your son had problems getting assistance - it is so tough at the moment. I don't want to lie on any form but we can (1) hold off until the sale goes through and then there will be no problem because we will have gone from having 2 homes to just having no work and in the mean time have lost weeks and gone further down the list and further into debt living off a credit card! Or (2) just not mention it and sign on now and feel guilty and scared incase they look into things further and end up getting nothing! I am really torn.......

I don't understand why you are differentiating between the situation of having a second home and having sold it. If the second home will not yield a profit when the mortgage is paid off, then why would you not declare it? ...As you should do by law...the penalties for not disclosing it would be severe. Apart from possible imprisonment if prosecuted, you would be disqualified from receiving any SW payments for years.

The outstanding mortgage will be deducted from the valuation figure of the second house before any assessment is made. Basically, the second house is assessed as if it was capital, less oustanding mortgage.

I don't want a penalty or to go to jail! All I want is for my husband to be able sign on and get some assistance so that we don't have to buy food with a credit card and have my family pay our bills! I think I have come across all wrong....I do not want to hide anything. And I don't think I have anything to hide. I am not familar with the process and there is no information out there on this particular type of situation. All I wanted to know was if this house is not going to exist as ours in a month, by which time I doubt any payment would have some through anyway, is it worth the hassle of mentioning it at all. I was not aware of them taking the mortgage from the value - which by the way is negative. So thanks for that Welfarite. And I know now the consequences of not declaring something on the form! Honestly think we will just wait until after the house sale. Its not worth the hassle and hopefully some work will have turned up at that stage so we don't have to go through this at all. Thanks for the reply I am off to have another cry........

Hi Dazzles, sorry to hear of your situation. Has the buyer of your house signed the Contracts yet or not?
I would ask your solicitor's advice, perhaps at contracts exchanged stage, maybe the asset has now moved to the new owner as they can't back out once they've signed it. At least then you will be advised of the legal implications one way or another and can base your decision on that. If you had some legal document to show the Social Welfare that you are selling for less than you paid for the house, they cannot accuse you of having assets.
If your husband is entitled to Jobseekers' Allowance, as far as I am aware it is based on PRSI contributions in the previous year and not means-tested.
Once that payment ends after a certain number of weeks, then you are means tested for Job seekers' Benefit which is different. There used to be a Social Welfare Information Office which you could ring anonymously and ask all these things without giving your name, not sure if that facilty still exists.

sadie said:

If your husband is entitled to Jobseekers' Allowance, as far as I am aware it is based on PRSI contributions in the previous year and not means-tested.
Once that payment ends after a certain number of weeks, then you are means tested for Job seekers' Benefit which is different. There used to be a Social Welfare Information Office which you could ring anonymously and ask all these things without giving your name, not sure if that facilty still exists.

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JA is the means tested one and JB is based on PRSI contributions, whcih the OP's hubby hasn't goty as he was self-employed.

Dazzles, you should get hubby to sign on. From what you say, there will be no capital value assessment, irrespective of house not sold/sold as it is in negative equity. The means test will take into account the downturn in the economy to the extend that even though your hubby was self-employed, it won't use 2007 or 2006 accounts as a base, as things are completely different now.

Sadie and Welfarite - thank you both for your replies. Contracts are just signed so all going ahead. I am going to give our solicitor a buzz in the morning and see what he thinks or if he can give hubby something if he decides to go and sign on. Hopefully hubby will be entitled to something or better still get a job! 2007 accounts were a loss so they can have them all they want - guess we should have seen it coming - thought it was just a bad year...not the beginning of the end!

Dazzles, I would suggest you visit the St. Vincent De Paul society who may be able to assist you until you get the paperwork sorted. Look the number up in the phone book first thing in the morning.

As well as that let your husband take the first step in signing on. Things will sort themselves out, they always do! It's not a good idea to get yourself stressed out because you need to keep a clear head. Good Luck. No one is judging you but you need to do the right thing now and not panic.

Thanks for that Swallows. Isn't it ironic - I did work with SVP. And I worked for years with a charity helping people in need. SVP are a fantastic organisation but unlike a lot of people who need the services we have fantastic family support so for the moment I wouldn't ask for their help - not because of pride but because I know there are so many out there who are in a worse situation than us. Sometimes it just doesn't feel like it. I work with people from disadvantged areas and backgrounds and I think it helps me cope (kind of) with our own situation. We have a home (just about!), a great family (no doubt there) and a light at the end of the tunnel (I hope!). It is just a difficult time but please God it will all work out. But thanks for your reply and kind suggestions. I am going to stop stressing out and stay in this positive mode! Hubby is going to go and sign on and just answer what questions are asked. We have nothing to hide - all they have to do is look at bank statements etc. to see the situation is not pretty! Thanks again everyone for helpful advise. Hubby says thanks too......