Should we get rid of democracy?

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UptheDeise

Registered User
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I think its time we gave democracy the boot, as in our current voting system.

We have a horrible political class in this country that trough their way through the Dail. They put their own interests and the interests of their cronies first.

Let's have a lottery and just pick 166 names from a hat. Let these people then govern us. How bad can they be compared to the present lot?

Any thoughts, suggestions welcomed.
 
Did we ever have democracy . . . Its simply an ideal that only exists in our head, its not a reality for a majority of the country.

Democracy is about everybody having an equal opportunity. If I am a new candidate going up against a George Lee or a child of a former politician I am already at a disadvantage.

If I choose to be an independent candidate and dont have much money Im not really in the running as I dont have the backing of a huge party to help promote my beliefs.

If I am in a big party I am expected to vote on everything the top guy wants, thats not democracy thats a kind of dictatorship.

I had an interesting debate with a friend on what it would be like to have a dictator. One things for sure we would all know where we stand . . (ah no kidding, but it it shows how dissalusioned people are with our current setup).

I had another debate with a friend when I said to him that Democracy and capitalism contradict each others interests. Capitalism is about furthering your wealth by any means necessary (it hides behind the whole "rewarding motivation in people" ignoring the obvious in that it punishes those with less wealth). In essence the money men control our country. If I have no money, I have far less chance in getting elected or getting my interests looked after then if I was rich. With money you can get into power easier (or help get a puppit in power).

The best arguements for capitalism with democracy I hear is that its better then communism or fascism. That really is a "this is as good as it gets" arguement, which I dont accept.
 

if we just got rid of democracy and selected people via a lottery it would make no difference whether you are rich or poor.


I don't know if you have misread the point I was tyring to make. I'm not saying we should get rid of democracy and install a dictator, I'm saying we should select people to govern us via a lottery.


this is kinda going off the point when you bring in capitalism. Nonetheless, it is not in the best interests of a capitalist to see people poor. anyway all societies are both capitalistic and socialistic.

In essence the money men control our country. If I have no money, I have far less chance in getting elected or getting my interests looked after then if I was rich. With money you can get into power easier (or help get a puppit in power).
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And by bringing in a lottery system we would out the 'money' men and women in their place. They can't steamroll any politician because they simply don't know who's going to get selected.

The best arguements for capitalism with democracy I hear is that its better then communism or fascism. That really is a "this is as good as it gets" arguement, which I dont accept.
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I would prefer capitalism with democracy, rather than capitalism with communism or capitalism with fascism or socialism.

Incidentally that's what's going on in this country, a sort of corporate fascism with overtones of socialism.
 
UptheDeise said:
Let's have a lottery and just pick 166 names from a hat. Let these people then govern us. How bad can they be compared to the present lot?
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Fine for the first year but supposing someone is doing a great job how do you get them back to finish the good work?

If you make an exception for them then you must make an exception for someone who has spent their whole time looking after their friends and wants people to believe they have done a good job.

UptheDeise said:
I think its time we gave democracy the boot, as in our current voting system.
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As long as people are prepared to believe lies there will always be bad politicians.

UptheDeise said:
We have a horrible political class in this country that trough their way through the Dail. They put their own interests and the interests of their cronies first.
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It's the same the world over

UptheDeise said:
Any thoughts, suggestions welcomed.
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I think a 1 man 1 vote is a great idea.

I want to be the man with the vote
 

If a person is doing a good job I'm sure other people would lead by that persons example.

As long as people are prepared to believe lies there will always be bad politicians.
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That's the problem to many people out there acting like sheep. like mushrooms kept in the dark and feed on bull manure



It's the same the world over
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True, so why don't we change it.



I think a 1 man 1 vote is a great idea.

I want to be the man with the vote
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You do have the vote don't you
 
There are basic flaws with this proposition
You would have to change the voting laws.
That has to be done by the self serving politicians.
The people who were made into politicians would have to be advised by people who have a holistic view of the political map,who by default would become a non elective government.
 

We could change the rules when we have our revolution

As for your last point, many of our current politicians don't make any choices themselves. They use civil servants or expensive advisers, professionals, experts, pr counsultants and spin doctors.

And we know where that has gotten us.
 
UptheDeise said:
If a person is doing a good job I'm sure other people would lead by that persons example.
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This is where our problem is, if someone is doing a bad job and getting away with it then why not follow suite.

I'd love to see a situation where if we vote a particular guy (or girl {or even woman}) into power and aren't happy with what they are doing why can't there be a method of kicking them out for someone else.

Basically a vote of confidence every year

UptheDeise said:
That's the problem to many people out there acting like sheep. like mushrooms kept in the dark and feed on bull manure
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FF has plenty of them

UptheDeise said:
True, so why don't we change it.
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This would require a revolution.

UptheDeise said:
You do have the vote don't you
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No I want the vote.
 

So we would end up with the same end result anyway. my point exactly

Maybe live Interactive voting would be the way to go,
 
Yes, we could run a lottery, and things would end up pretty much the same. How great it would be if we could simply put the best in charge.

For example:
Minister forEnterprise, Trade and Employment - Peter Southerland
Finance - George Lee
Transport - Michael O'Leary
Arts, Sport and Tourism - Bono
Social and Family Affairs - Mary Robinson

I don't know - just throwing it out there. Real leaders in our society. People who stand for something. People with vision. What a country we could have.
 

No the idea is to get rid of self serving people not replace them with some of the same.
 
I wasnt saying we should have a dictator, I was saying that people are so dissalusioned with the current situation that they jokingly talk about it . . I wasnt agreeing with the lottery idea either, I was really responding to the OP on democracy, simply stating we dont live in a democratic society, so theres nothing to get rid of.

Also, I think the point on capitalism and democracy is important. Democracy can be achieved with no money in society (so no reason for anybody to look to financially further their situation) once people adhere to the system. Its a utopian idea.

An arguement could be made that fascism and Communism never really got a chance because they were done with dictators hell bent on keeping power, as opposed to keeping the interests of the public to the fore of politics. The same could be said of democracy, its not really getting much of a chance under capitalist run society.

Im simply making the point that there has to be a better way that society can be run and lived. I see the same mistakes happening over and over and over again, while society is money driven and run by politicians voted on for their popularity as opposed to their ability to do a job.
 
I think so. I met a Labour candidate the other day who is running for the European elections who is very young and not only inexperienced, but is qualified at nothing and is on the dole I am told. We should at least have an iq test not just people who come forward because they dont like the government. This person may actualy get elected due to the current anti government backlash.
We should have a central committee of brilliant minds that candidates could apply to and run the country like a business... I think they had something like this in star trek!
 
So we would end up with the same end result anyway. my point exactly
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No, we would not. We simply cut back the amount of government we have and the endless supply of money that our government currently uses.

Also, I think the point on capitalism and democracy is important. Democracy can be achieved with no money in society (so no reason for anybody to look to financially further their situation) once people adhere to the system. Its a utopian idea.
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I disagree, we have always had capitalism in our society going back thousands of years. People will want 'stuff' to improve their lot or just to survive. It's human nature.


Fascism and communism will always lead to dictatorship because in order for those systems to work everybody has to agree. the only way to make people to agree is to cajole and threaten violence aganist them. We the end up with a ruling political class screwing people left, right and centre.

And one way in dealing with that would be to bring in a lottery. We don't know who's going to get in so popularity would count for nought.
 
 
So then we could always talk about the "good ol' days when we had a democracy and we could do anything within the law". Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose"!
 
 
UptheDeise said:
...Every penny the government spends would have to be accounted for and I mean every penny...
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Article 33.1 of the Constitution:
There shall be a Comptroller and Auditor General to control on behalf of the State all disbursements and to audit all accounts of moneys administered by or under the authority of the Oireachtas.
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