Should plumbing company remove pipes with asbestos on them?

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gnubbit

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Hi,

I could do with some advice here.

I have a written contract with a heating/plumbing company to replace the central heating. As part of this, they were to remove all the old pipes, tanks in attic etc. As I plan to use the attic space, this was important to me.

I was told the job was finished and went to the house to check. First of all, they left a mess - did not replace carpets etc which has given me a bad impression of them. I looked in the attic and saw some piping and thought they must have forgotten. I told the plumber and he said, "oh really, is there still piping up there?". I confirmed same and he came up to the house to check/finish off outstanding jobs. When we had discussed the other bits and pieces he said that actually, there was asbestos rope around the pipe and he didn't want to touch it. He hadn't looked at it since and I feel he misled me a bit as he had known all along - I would have wanted to be alerted to the problem immediately.

I don't know what to do. I know some of the heating companies I spoke to actually looked in the attic before quoting and were a bit dearer but they didn't mention asbestos. The quote I went with was a little above the average and they didn't look in the attic. I have a signed contract - should they honour it?

Obviously I don't want anyone jeopardising their health over this and I want to do what's right. But I don't want to be walked over either.

I have paid just over 2/3 of the price and had told them that I wanted to keep something back till the job was finished (valuable advice I got on AAM).

I'm now paranoid about asbestos and am worried that some old floor tiles they disturbed when tearing up floors to put pipes in could also be asbestos. They didn't replace the carpet over them. How can I find out?

Would really appreciate some guidance here - I'm feeling stressed out about it all.
 
You'll need to get an asbestos report done.
They'll also be able to take samples of your vinyl tiles to see if they are asbestos containing.

Your plumber would not be legally cleared to remove asbestos pipes. I'm not certain if his contract with you would require him to have the asbestos pipes removed by a specialist. There is a certain amount of bureaucracy involved - e.g. there is 2 weeks notice to the HSA before you are allowed remove the asbestos.

In any case your next steps are:
a. Get an asbestos survey done:
http://www.goldenpages.ie/category_Asbestos+-+Surveying+&+Removal_Ireland-1.html
(Shop around for a couple of prices).

b. Find out if your plumber must pay for the disposal of the asbestos.
Do you have a contract with your plumber? If yes - talk to a Quantity Surveyor. If not you might talk to a solicitor, but I suspect you will be responsible for the removal of the asbestos.
 
Approximately how old is the house so that it can be assumed if this is a duff story about the Asbestos. I'm not 100% certain but Asbestos rope was not really used in this country and certainly not normally on household applications. If the tiles are asbestos, the simplest way to deal with these is to cover them with rubber backed carpet. Legitimate and known as the easiest and simplest way of dealing with this problem. |The main use in Ireland for Asbestos was roofing and piping. It is not your problem that they gave you a price without checking the extent of the works and then submitting a price to end with a contract. It really is their problem, and the best way on them not having to complete a job is to make an excuse that will scare and stick. Asbestos is a marvelous decoy. Where is the house ?
 
If he is a proper plumbing contractor who inspected the job, he would know if Asbestos was involved. If he gave a price for removal he will have to stick by it, If he made a mistake. TOUGH.
 
It gets worse - I now have a leak to contend with!

Thank you all very much for your replies.

The house was built in the mid-sixties. I've been told it costs thousands to get an asbestos surveyor but one of my in-laws knows someone who will probably look at it for nothing though I might have to wait a while. The floor had been covered by underlay and woven-backed carpet and I had been planning to put down vinyl floor-covering.

After I posted here, a different guy from the heating company rang to say he was on his way and was prepared to take out the pipes. However, when I got to the house to let him in, I found a leak coming from pipes under the floorboards upstairs. From the amount of water on the floor below, I don't think it had been there long (I don't live at the property so can't be sure).

After temporarily sorting the leak (which got a LOT worse before stopping), he decided not to deal with the attic pipes (or leak) till Monday. I was worried that maybe he didn't realise what he was dealing with as I don't think he had any protective gear with him (can't be sure though) but when I asked him if he knew about the asbestos and the implications of dealing with it he said yes. He did take a look at them before he went but I wasn't receptive to feedback at the time (was trying to cope with the sight of water pouring from a ceiling light fitting).

So now I'm wondering what to do. My emotional response is that I want nothing more to do with this (supposedly reputable Bord Gais approved) company but that may not be practical. I really want to get rid of the pipes in the attic but I don't want to put anyone's health at risk or break the law.

I don't yet know what damage has been caused by the leak - will the ceiling need to replaced? It hasn't fallen in but I see a crack and I guess there will be a stain at the least. The carpet was saturated too - will this cause any permanet damage do you think? Who is liable for the damage? I was supposed to be getting the house rewired next week but am not sure if it will need to dry out first, in the meantime there is no electricity as I turned it off to be on the safe side. The plumber said I didn't need to, that I could just remove the fuse from that lighting circuit but I didn't feel I could trust his opinion (not necessarily fair but my trust has been shattered).

This company has been paid 10% of the total cost (my husband stopped the cheque for the remainder as they weren't responding to calls to discuss this after the leak). I don't think they are crooks but I have lost all confidence in them. I feel that they pressured me to pay up when the job wasn't yet finished to my satisfaction - I feel like they did a very sloppy job but then, I am not a plumber!

Please advise me if you can. I want to get this sorted and do whatever is right but I don't know what this is right now!
 
If one of your in-laws knows the Asbestos Game and / or building game, you might ask him was it common place in the 60s to use Asbestos pipes in that locality ?? I still get the feeling that (and with every respect to the contractors) this just might be a case of imaginary asbestos. About 10 years ago I was in the process of purchasing an Asbestos removal company and I withdrew fairly quickly when I saw the amount of imaginary charges that were being made from persons who thought cases were Asbestos but they weren't, Money under false pretenses. Concerning the payment if they have done the job (albeit with a mess) they are probably owed more than 10%, but hang on until your relation checks the scene. At least you should get a responsible answer to the situation. Do you have Insurance on the property ?? If so I would be considering a claim fior the damage by the water leak.
 
Thanks for the reply Mercman, I think might be right but will wait to see what the expert says re the asbestos.

We have every intention of paying for work done; I just don't think the job has been done properly yet. I'd feel happier if another plumber had a look at it tbh but not sure if I'm justified in this. For example, they were supposed to replace old pipes with new but it doesn't look like this was done but I want to be certain before I make any accusations. They certainly didn't make good after their work (floorboards not put down properly, carpet not relaid, rubbish in every room).

The house is currently unoccupied so I had written to the insurance company to advise them of this and the work being done but haven't heard anything back so not sure if it's covered. In any case, I think that the leak is due to something the plumbers did wrong (should be able to find out either way tomorrow) so they should claim on their insurance - is that wrong of me?
 
No, it's not wrong of you. At this point in time, you would be better having a Surveyor read over their quotation, then examine the work and advise with was left short etc., plus a price to have another contractor to refinish the work to the standard quoted for. Anything you have mentioned so far is justified, although not sure if another plumbing cntractor will speak ill of another in the same trade.
 
Thanks for getting back to me - was stressed to the hilt over this but feeling better now :)

Am waiting on the asbestos surveyor but in the meantime, a plumber took the "asbestos" from the attic. I just hope it's disposed of properly.

The leak is mended (I think) so things are looking up!
 
If the plumber took the so called asbestos away - just like that, then it probably wasn't asbestos. Therefore, and i acknowledge your concerns, before you commence making further payments to the contractor that did the work, have it all checked out, and what he did wrong and didn't do at all, don't pay him.
 
Thanks, my gut feeling is that it wasn't asbestos but they didn't want to back down. I can't see anyone knowingly removing it without the proper safety equipment.

I'm having someone look over everything on Saturday so I'll know better what's what then.

I really appreciate the replies - I was truly in a state of panic over this!
 
Just remember, your contractors maybe saw this as a way of extracting more money from you. You will have to charge him for having this rubbish removed off site , special journey, special contractor etc, etc. He might owe you more than vice versa by the time he finishes tripping himself up
 
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