Should people be paid what they need or what they earn?

Duke of Marmalade said:

newtothis I could see how you would make that inference but it certainly wasn't intended and I like you would reject it.

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Absolutely accept it's not what you intended. I understand too, people have a habit of reading too much into what's written; I wasn't expecting to be taken as an apologist for Soviet style societies either.

Personally, I think we'd all be better off in paying more attention to Marx (Groucho) rather than Marx (Karl).....

newtothis said:

Personally, I think we'd all be better off in paying more attention to Marx (Groucho) rather than Marx (Karl).....

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Well said. I think most of us can agree on this though Groucho, while a funny guy, wasn't a very nice guy and treated people who worked for him quite badly.

Purple said:

Well said. I think most of us can agree on this though Groucho, while a funny guy, wasn't a very nice guy and treated people who worked for him quite badly.

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That may well have been the case, but I'll bet he was better company than Karl......

newtothis said:

That may well have been the case, but I'll bet he was better company than Karl......

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Indeed, Karl was well known for seldom bathing. He kept a "maid" who lived with him from the ago of 8, was never paid and there are numerous but unproven accusations that she later bore his child.
He lived off loans from rich (capitalist) friends which for the most part he didn't repay, never employed or worked with any "working class" people and his daughters seemed to be seriously dysfunctional people as 2 of the 3 of them committed suicide.

newtothis said:

Rewards for work have very little correlation to either effort or productive outcome. Some of the most valuable work in terms of society - raising the next generation - had some of the lowest or no pay associated with it.

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That is just your opinion.

Who is to decide what work is the most valuable to society.

If it were me, hairdressers among others, would get nothing.

It is an aspect of democracy, not just of capitalism, that individual people can decide who to reward. You are free to spend your money with the hairdresser, I am free not to.

The idea that pay is the only reward society can give to incentivise effort is a little myopic.

Most people also get an element of respect from their work. Both self-respect and the respect of the community.

In any traditional Irish town, the priest, the doctor and the teacher were the best respected people. That was their reward for their study and effort.

The publican, the auctioneer, the shop keeper, the undertaker and some of the larger farmers usually had a bigger income, that was their reward for their energy and enterprise.

As for GAA, football and rugby coaches who work for free...
Working for an income is what we are talking about here, not the societal value of how we spend our time.
Nobody pays me for cooking dinner for my kids, washing and ironing their clothes or baking, cooking, painting & drawing with them and nobody should; they are my kids. I don't feel under valued as a parent by society because of that. The notion that people should be paid to be a parent is daft.