Should developers have to provide infrastructure?

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golden mean

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Perhaps not the right forum but could see none better....

Have just seen the planning application for the propsoed Cosgrove development at the Dun Laoghaire golf club site. As with most developments in areas which are very built up, the local infrastructure is already creaking the seams, yet the developer conveniently ignores the fact that the cars associated with over 800 new homes just won't fit on the local roads, and that the people living there just won't fit on the local buses and trains. Presumably this happens with other developments too. Is it just me or do others think that this is crazy?

It is great that there are to be new homes for people who need them, but how can developers get away without paying into the pot for road improvements and/or improved transport links?
 
This is a problem with the councils that approve the developments and those that grant planning permission and therefore not the fault of the developers.
 
golden mean said:
................but how can developers get away without paying into the pot for road improvements and/or improved transport links?
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They don't, they are obliged to make developer contributions under the Planning and Development Act..
 
There are going to be phenominal traffic jams in the estate itself coming out onto glenagearry road and Bakers Corner (the 2 entrances) of that new developement.

800 residences seems like a lot for that space.
 
I grew up within a half a mile of this proposed development and think it is an absolute scandal. I went to a car boot sale in the area last Sunday that backs onto the golf course, and it was awful looking at the course, thinking that it will all be dug up.

Each and every councillor of DLR Co Co should be asked to account for themselves when they approved this development. My parents certainly will be of them in next year's local elections. Apparently construction could take up to TEN YEARS. The traffic congestion, the dust, noise etc. is going to be dreadful.

In addition, the 'homes' they are proposing are tiny little shoeboxes. Anyone who looks at the plans should contrast them with the established houses surrounding the development. Tiny houses with tiny gardens. Most of the planned houses don't even provide for front gardens ffs...
 
tallpaul said:
. Most of the planned houses don't even provide for front gardens ffs...
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TBH, don't know the area, but surely good urban housing planning would not necessarily have to include front gardens?
 
jdwex said:
TBH, don't know the area, but surely good urban housing planning would not necessarily have to include front gardens?
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LOL! Good one there. Good urban planning! Hillarious. Should be in the Shooting the Breeze section.
 
jdwex said:
TBH, don't know the area, but surely good urban housing planning would not necessarily have to include front gardens?
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If, as is rumoured, the developers are going to be looking a for around a million a house, I would bloody hope they have a front garden!!!
 
tallpaul said:
If, as is rumoured, the developers are going to be looking a for around a million a house, I would bloody hope they have a front garden!!!
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A million! eek..
Maybe not so much the case in that location, but you would probably not include front gardens in well designed urban residential streets.
 
tallpaul said:
If, as is rumoured, the developers are going to be looking a for around a million a house, I would bloody hope they have a front garden!!!
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What has this got to do with the issue? Do you think that they should sell the houses for less than the market value?
 
demoivre said:
They don't, they are obliged to make developer contributions under the Planning and Development Act..
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Very interested to learn more about this if you can enlighten me demoivre. The way I look at it, development should enhance an area, not cause it to collapse under its own weight. To me it stands out a mile that the thousands of people who will live in this place will need to get to all sorts of places and at the moment there are only overcrowded buses and cars on choked up roads to get them there.

But, if there were conditions on the planning (and despite what has been said above, approval has not been granted for this scheme- yet) we might see some additional infrastructure in the area (bus to Sandyford where so many Dun Laoghaire residents work, maybe a bit of road widening and traffic light synchronisation, etc).

For what it is worth, I dont see why houses have to have front gardens- there won't be many people walking past the windows- I would actually prefer to have all my space out back, where you can enjoy it- who uses their front garden for anything other than parking anyway? I would like to see more parking underground in these develoments- cars are not too pretty to look at.

As for the homes being tiny- I don't know if that is true or not, but what I would love to see in the area is nice places for downsizers, so that they can free up some more houses for the rest of us!
 
Purple said:
What has this got to do with the issue? Do you think that they should sell the houses for less than the market value?
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Nothing really and I have no doubt they will not sell them below market value. I suppose I am being somewhat of a traditionalist in this: you buy a three-bed semi or whatever and expect front and back gardens... more for aesthetics if you wish...
 
tallpaul said:
Each and every councillor of DLR Co Co should be asked to account for themselves when they approved this development. My parents certainly will be of them in next year's local elections.
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Next year's election will be a general election. The next local election will be around 2009. Councillors don't approve or disprove individual developments. This is done by the planners, council management and/or An Bord Pleaneala.
 
RainyDay said:
Next year's election will be a general election. The next local election will be around 2009. Councillors don't approve or disprove individual developments. This is done by the planners, council management and/or An Bord Pleaneala.
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Accepted. But from memory I recall that the Councillors had a number of debates on the issue which culminated in a vote on the development...
 
800 houses wont add that much congestion,sounds more like NIMBY's to me. You'd swear everyone in these new houses were all gonna leave their houses in a car each at the same time during peak hours. We have to build on such sites in the city and maximise use of space, theres loads of golfcourses further out from the city where they belong.
 
tallpaul said:
Accepted. But from memory I recall that the Councillors had a number of debates on the issue which culminated in a vote on the development...
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Again, it seems your ire is misdirected. This tract of land was one of several tracts which was rezoned as residential by Ministerial order from Martin Cullen (then Minister of Environment) following a recommendation by the the DLR County Manager Derek Brady (who has since taken up a job with a major property development company) in 2004. See [broken link removed] for more details.
 
RainyDay said:
Again, it seems your ire is misdirected. This tract of land was one of several tracts which was rezoned as residential by Ministerial order from Martin Cullen (then Minister of Environment) following a recommendation by the the DLR County Manager Derek Brady (who has since taken up a job with a major property development company) in 2004. See [broken link removed] for more details.
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mmmmh....didnt realise the conflicts of interest involved, why hasnt this been covered in media?? the brown envelope may have disappeared from irish planning but have plum jobs in private sector and nods and winks replaced them?? I vaguely remember hearing such public sector employees making big money decisions can go straight to the private sector with no restrcitions.
 
IMHO County councils should get their houses in order. If they adhered to the proper planning laws, drafted proper development plans (not just paper exercises) ... they would stop developers seeking judicial reviews of planning decisions thereby forcing them to provide proper infrastructure. All too often developers buy their way out of their obligation to provide social housing, childcare etc because they are willing to take on the system to the letter of the law and force the county councils to back down.
 
Hi Henny - Were your comments intended to relate to Dun Laoghaire? I don't think there was any question of legal action by the developers in this case.
 
Hi RainyDay

My comments were just merely general comments. I have no interest in Dun Laoghaire ... as it's not in my back yard!

I was just making the point that developers take advantage of the ineptitude/lack of resources of county councils by threatening legal action against what they deem to be unfair conditions of planning permission such as the provision of childcare or road infrastructure.

I think the county councils create development plans for a particular area but they never stick to them. How often does a county council turn down planning permission for a development that is in contravension of the development plan? They wouldn't have the stomach for it ... they leave it to the poor shmucks in ABP to do the dirty work if someone decides to appeal the decision.

IMO county councils trying to encourage development ... will pander to the developers rather than what is best for the county.

Just my opinion.
 
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