- how do you know what your relative saw?My relative did not see the documentation which mention the over 160k figure until years after taking out the mortgage. On the form she signed, the income box was not filled in, only her 3 years accounts were attached and a statement saying her income was 40k. She accepted her income was 40k, as did the broker whenever she met the broker.
Do you think if white collar fraud is found, those guilty should be punished?
Indeed.Let the record show that it is possible that the bank acted inappropriately way back when in relation to this particular case!
- how do you know what your relative saw?
She made the repayments for some time. Nobody from the brokers or bank asked her how she proposed to repay the loan. The file from the bank confirms that. The bank wrote her salary of over 160k would repay the loan. It was on internal bank documentation. When signing documentation in front of a solicitor there was no mention in the documentation of how the loan was to be repaid, just that it was to be repaid. What lie did she sign?- why are you ignoring the fact she signed loan documentation in front of her solicitor which clearly showed she was unable to make the repayments. Which is her signing a lie.
But if a banker or broker deceived others ( their managers or shareholders or whoever ) and changed figures dramatically in order to make a sale and get commission or a bonus or reach a target or whatever, you do not think such suspicious activity should be investigated, let alone any culprits jailed?I absolutely would love it if a load of bankers had been jailed.
As said earlier, I think for peace of mind it should be reported, it was the borrowers wishes and it may help stop history repeating itself. The Gardai can decide to investigate or not. Thank you.@Timjoe
Why are you posting about it here rather than going ahead and reporting it to the Gardai?
Priority? I am sure the Gardai are more than capable of working on more than one case. In any case, when the detective I want to speak to comes back from leave, I will ask him.From reading this report on RTE , the Garda clearly have no sense of priority
The gang stole the money in Asia and redirected it to banks in Ireland.
Officers from the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau foiled an attempt to withdraw €3m from a bank in Dublin, which had been stolen abroad.
The level of deception and alteration of documentation meant it was not just a risky loan, it was totally unsustainable which would end in tears for both the borrower and others - as did happen. The taxpayer, as well as shareholders who lost out as a result of banks behaviour, deserve to know how widespread such behaviour was in the banks, and there is widespread support among the general public to have those suspected of white collar fraud investigated and punished. I am sure some bankers would not agree....when they could be running an investigation into the the way rogue employees of Irish banks changed the internal documentation 13 years ago so that their employer could make risky loans?
Correct.It is possible that an employee of the bank acted inappropriately. The bank should sanction that employee.
If it was a systemic behaviour approved by the management, the management should be sanctioned.
But, you've already said the bank got their money back? Why would the taxpayer or shareholders care about this case?The taxpayer, as well as shareholders who lost out as a result of banks behaviour
the bank got the land back and all she had, the insurance company covered the balance
and there is widespread support among the general public to have those suspected of white collar fraud investigated and punished. I am sure some bankers would not agree.
Because as pointed out to you already:But, you've already said the bank got their money back? Why would the taxpayer or shareholders care about this case?
Pinoy above is correct. If some or some people in the banking system deceived others ( higher management, shareholders, whoever ) for their personal, selfish short sighted gain ( commission, bonus, reaching target or whatever ) and benefited by say €5,000, and done that 20 times, that is 100k. Why should they be allowed get away with that? People have gone to jail for less. The behaviour of reckless elements in the banks did end up costing the taxpayer and shareholders dearly. Also, in this particular case the insurance company would probably not have had to pay out if the bank had acted honestly and properly. There is no such thing as a victimless crime.if the bank put any figure down on any paperwork which did not match what was provided by the borrower there is a real concern, as if they don't it on 1 rest assured they done it on many.
With all due respect, the demographic of askaboutmoney posters is not representative of the general population..If you've got your finger on the pulse of what the public want, what is it telling you via the response to this thread?
Do you mind sharing exactly what kind of insurance policy was involved, that paid out a shortfall after the property was sold?Also, in this particular case the insurance company would probably not have had to pay out if the bank had acted honestly and properly
That was between the deceased borrower, the insurance company and the bank. Not really relevant to the original question.Do you mind sharing exactly what kind of insurance policy was involved, that paid out a shortfall after the property was sold?
With all due respect, the demographic of askaboutmoney posters is not representative of the general population..
And here go once again you deciding to ask our advice, ignoring our advice, telling us that we don't represent the general population because we don't agree with you and any time any one of us ask you a pertinent question you dismiss us. Why on earth did you come on here at all. I'm convinced your relative was up to all sorts to get the money.That was between the deceased borrower, the insurance company and the bank. Not really relevant to the original question.
That was between the deceased borrower, the insurance company and the bank. Not really relevant to the original question.
It was "normal" in the 1990's for this. Some Solicitors would know who you would go to.I know of someone who paid a employee of a bank €2500 in order to get mortgage approval in recent years. Apparently said individual operated this operation as a side line business and his number was passed around tradesmen who often found it difficult to get mortgage approval. Apparently the bank has 1000's of mortgages on their books based on falsified earnings that they are unaware of. The bank employee has since left the country but he did warn the party that i know if they ever missed a payment then the activity would be discovered.
It was "normal" in the 1990's for this. ( someone who paid a employee of a bank €2500 in order to get mortgage approval )
You may be surprised.near impossible to find where the blame is.
All in good time.It is possible that an employee of the bank acted inappropriately. The bank should sanction that employee.
If it was a systemic behaviour approved by the management, the management should be sanctioned.
I am surprised there are 3 or 4 posters here who are so soft on such crime.
Nobody asked you to be convinced. However a banker who changes figures on bank documentation by over €120,000, and who may gain as a result ( bonus, commission, promotion, meeting target? ) needs to be investigated. Especially when the bank, very suspiciously, will not explain it. You may not think white collar fiddling of the figures is fraud or is a crime, or tax evasion such as the bank employee who Pugmister admits takes €2500 for himself on a regular basis etc. You may not think it needs to be investigated and those guilty ( if any ) punished, but 89 to 90% of the public do.We're not yet convinced that any crime took place, or if one did, your friend the borrower was likely complicit.
In any case, when the detective I want to speak to comes back from leave, I will ask him
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