Shannon

!

If only these individuals put half as much entusiasm into local issues as they do into anti american protests we would be much better off.
Where are these moral high grounds gilly's for the rest of the year , resitting possibly?
 
Re: !

If only these individuals put half as much entusiasm into local issues as they do into anti american protests we would be much better off.

Everyone has the right to protest about what they want. Who are you to tell Irish people what they should be protesting against?
 
Re: The Last Word

This is going slightly off topic, but is relevant in relation to why people are going to be protesting over the coming days.


Was anyone listening to the Last Word the other evening? They had a US soldier on who'd served during the war.

What he described over there was horrific and much like Vietnam, largely untold in the media.

Excuse me if I'm not spot on with exactly what he said...but amongst other things were:

There were absolutely no rules laid down by the military in relation to how Iraqis were to be treated. As he put it (paraprased) "The Geneva convention went out the window".

The Iraqis were lied to by the military. Propoganda being dropped by aeroplane before the war stated that they'd be treated the same way as they were in '91. They weren't. When Iraqi soldiers put down their weapons and put up their arms, instead of being treated with respect as they were told they were dumped in prisons and we know the rest.

He told of some horrific stories in relation to the injured. One story related to some badly injured civilians who were brought to a military hospital. A short time later their barely still alive bodies were dumped on the side of the road and they were left to die.

He also described how they shot innocent civilians (including women and children) who 'entered their perimeter' unwittingly and said it had little to do with fear of suicide bombers.

In the end they got rid of him because he complained. He told his superiors that what they were doing was essentially genocide due to all the depleted uranium which they've left there which will kill an untold number of Iraqis over the coming years.

As this war/occupation nears its end I believe we will begin to hear what really went on in Iraq directly from the soldiers themselves.
 
Iraq etc

Piggy,

This is all totally untrue and you should be ashamed of yourself for peddling such propoganda. Ask the vast majority of the coalition troops how the citizens of Iraq are treated and you will get the opposite story. The citizens of Iraq are better off now than under Saddam, and they would be better off still if it were not for Bin Laden followers in Iraq, who is supported by Piggy.
 
Re: Iraq etc

This is all totally untrue and you should be ashamed of yourself for peddling such propoganda

Actually I was merely rehashing what this American Soldier who served during the war was saying on the Last Word.

It's not that hard to believe really considering what we know about the way the prisons were run.

they would be better off still if it were not for Bin Laden followers in Iraq, who is supported by Piggy

That's a fascinating comment and I can see that you're clearly a quite rational individual :rolleyes
 
Re: Iraq etc

It was very disturbing Piggy but we must remember that it is one persons account. I am not saying that it is true but it shouldn't be taken as gospel. If he said it was all rosy and uncle Sam was playing a stormer etc would you have been so quick to accept his words as true?
 
Re: Iraq etc

I agree purple and as usual you're the sound voice of balance.

However, the thing is I believe it...not because I want to but because it's far from the first story of what's really going on over there.

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]

www.wsws.org/articles/2004/may2004/tort-m18.shtml



And that's just a quick search I did. I've heard other stories both on TV and on the radio from soldiers and reports about soldiers. I predict that we'll hear more and more about this after the handover and as troops begin to filter home.
 
Re: Iraq etc

Incidentally, I came across this while Googling for soldiers stories of Iraq.

I was lambasted some time ago for mentioning Al-Jazeera as a valid and truer reflection of what is happening in the Middle East and Iraq. I am by no means an expert on them. To be honest I don't know that much...but it's always struck me as odd that they're demonised as pro-Arab, anti-American, when I have never viewed them in that light myself or at least have no proof to suggest that this is the case.

This article would seem to suggest that perhaps the case against them is not so clear cut.



----------------------------------------------------------
"Arthur Neslen
Wednesday April 21, 2004
The Guardian

When US forces recently demanded that a team from the Arabic TV station al-Jazeera leave Falluja as a condition for reaching a ceasefire with the local resistance, it came as no surprise at the network's headquarters in Doha. Reliable sources there say that coalition officials threatened to close down the al-Jazeera bureau in Baghdad earlier this year and last week sent a letter accusing the network of violating the Geneva convention and the principles of a free press.

Since the "war on terror" began, al-Jazeera has been a thorn in the side of the Pentagon. "My solution is to change the channel," Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said this month in Baghdad, "to a legitimate, authoritative, honest news station. The stations that are showing Americans intentionally killing women and children are not legitimate news sources."

The trouble for Kimmitt is that millions of people in the Middle East disagree. Al-Jazeera has become the most popular TV network in the region - with a daily audience of 35 million - precisely because it has shown the human carnage that US military onslaughts leave in their wake. If it became a "legitimate, authoritative, honest news station" of the kind that routinely censors the realities of US military operations, it would lose its audience.

The al-Jazeera reports of US snipers firing at women and children in the streets of Falluja have now been corroborated by international observers in the city. Perhaps it is natural that a military force should seek to suppress evidence that could be used against it in future war crimes trials. But it is equally natural that a free media should resist.

Democratising the Middle East may have been the neo-cons' case for the conquest of Iraq. But on the ground, the US is acting against the flowering of Middle East media freedom, which al-Jazeera initiated.

The station was launched in 1996, by disenchanted BBC journalists, after Saudi investors pulled the plug on the Arabic TV division of the BBC News service. Since then, it has spawned a plethora of competitors such as EDTV, Abu Dhabi TV, the Lebanese Broadcasting Company and, most significantly, al-Arabiya. Like al-Jazeera, al-Arabiya has been banned by the US-appointed Iraqi governing council for weeks at a time for "incitement to murder", after airing tapes of Saddam Hussein. Two of its journalists were shot dead by US forces at a US checkpoint in March.

Last November, George Bush declared that successful societies "limit the power of the state and the military ... and allow room for independent newspapers and broadcast media". But three days earlier, an al-Jazeera camera man, Salah Hassan, had been arrested in Iraq, held incommunicado in a chicken-coup-sized cell and forced to stand hooded, bound and naked for up to 11 hours at a time. He was beaten by US soldiers who would address him only as "al-Jazeera" or "bitch". Finally, after a month, he was dumped on a street just outside Baghdad, in the same vomit-stained red jumpsuit that he had been detained in.

Twenty other al-Jazeera journalists have been arrested and jailed by US forces in Iraq and one, Tariq Ayoub, was killed last April when a US tank fired a shell at the al-Jazeera offices in Baghdad's Palestine hotel. It was an accident, the Pentagon said, even though al-Jazeera had given the Pentagon the coordinates of its Baghdad offices before the war began.

As the invasion was getting underway, aljazeera.net was taken offline by a hacker attack mounted from California by John William Racine III. With a maximum tariff of 25 years available, the US attorney's office agreed a sentence of 1,000 hours community service.

Ever since al-Jazeera broadcast videotapes of Osama bin Laden in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, Washington has treated it like a fifth column. There have been allegations that intense pressure from the White House led the network to silence some of its more outspoken journalists, such as aljazeera.net's senior website editor, Yvonne Ridley, who was dismissed in November 2003.

In the weeks following 9/11, Colin Powell visited Emir al-Thani, the ruler of Qatar - and financier of al-Jazeera - to request that he rein in his country's free press. The emir went public about Powell's mission and, during the subsequent war in Afghanistan, al-Jazeera's offices in Kabul were bombed - by accident, the Pentagon said.

Sami al-Haj, an al-Jazeera cameraman seized in Afghanistan, remains detained in Guantánamo Bay to this day, and al-Jazeera's journalists in the west have been singled out. After attending the European social forum in Paris, I myself was detained for an hour by British special branch officers at Waterloo station. The questioning focused on my employer. The officers also wanted information about other al-Jazeera journalists in Paris and London, and asked if I would speak to someone in their office on a regular basis about my work contacts. I declined both requests.

The targeting of al-Jazeera is all the more remarkable, given that it is the only Arab TV network to routinely offer Israeli, US and British officials a platform to argue their case. The Israeli cabinet minister Gideon Ezra famously told the Jerusalem Post: "I wish all Arab media were like al-Jazeera". Kenton Keith, the former US ambassador to Qatar, commented: "You have to be a supporter of al-Jazeera, even if you have to hold your nose sometimes."

Al-Jazeera has a track record of honest and accurate reporting, and has maintained a principled pluralism in the face of brutal and authoritarian regimes within the region, and increasingly from those without. This is why it has been vilified, criminalised and bombed. It is also why it should be defended by those who genuinely believe that successful societies depend upon an independent media.

· Arthur Neslen was until last week London correspondent for aljazeera.net. He is writing a book about Israeli identity for Pluto Press"
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Iraq

I suppose if you swallow all this Muslim propoganda then you will believe anything. Its anti west and anti Israeli stance is well understood. I feel sorry for these people.
 
Re: Iraq

Its anti west and anti Israeli stance is well understood

Gee Seamus, if your previously well thought out, detailed and knowledgeable arguments weren't so good I would nearly accuse you of not even reading the article I provided and merely jumping on everything I say for the sake of it. But that couldn't be true could it?

-------------------------------------------------------
The Israeli cabinet minister Gideon Ezra famously told the Jerusalem Post: "I wish all Arab media were like al-Jazeera"
-------------------------------------------------------
 
iraq

Most TV channels when reporting are biased as to who they are reporting to

I lived in the Uk for a period and while watching BBC southeast I was amazed how anti-irish the reports on the north of ireland were

If I was english and that is all I knew about the "troubles" i wuld be very anti-irish

You could watch BBC NI or RTE (or even TV3) and the reports are generally the same

BBC SE was a disgrace, they were reporting on some far off corner of the world were the IRA were shooting people hourly from watch towers and bombing daily
 
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I agree , the RTE newsroom has its share of Northern Catholics who in the past have always given an anti-unionist viewpoint. It always gives Sinn Fein in a good light and never asks them tough questions. As for the Colombia three, sure were they not only three lads on their innocent adventures.

The BBC SE service cannot be described as anti-Irish. I remember when a IRA bomb went off once they were blaming Paisley !

Note to Piggy : please could you read and understand more of what Israeli politicians said, or do you choose to only believe one sentence and no more? For the record, please could you verify your quote by telling us the date of the Newspaper quote in question?
 
Can you read?

I just stated that BBC and RTE are fairly similar in how they report matters in the north

As for BBC SE, they probably blamed Paisley on being in the IRA also

Remember, London (and surrounding) is made up of people from many different nations and ethnic back grounds and even some english
(not that I care or have an opinion on that, it is only an observation)

Most of which, from watching TV believe that (from first hand experience)....

Irish people do not speak english...

Ireland is part of the UK, just like the other football teams, Scotland, Wales....

The IRA is the national army of the free state...

Gerry Adams is the president of Ireland....

And finally, as this is from most english people also

There is no such thing as unionist paramilitaries and a catholic has never been murdered
 
To provide some balance

Just to provide some balance to the Al Jazeera point I was making...not everyone writes about them in the same light. My own guess would be that there's truth on both sides of the argument.

www.allied-media.com/ARABTV/aljazeera/washpost.htm

and an interesting article on the relationship between Al Jazeera and the US, written by Robert Fisk.
[broken link removed]
 
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Joesoapy, are you for real? I think you are quite racist in your remarks, and you underestimate the intelligence and knowledge of the average resident of England.

When did the BBC say, or even give the impression, that " Irish people do not speak English " or " Gerry Adams is the president of Ireland " ?

If the IRA was the national army of the free state , or a regular army, it would have been wiped out long ago. The fact its members do not identify themselves or wear uniforms, etc they are really just terrorists.

Get real , listen to RTE or UTV or BBC or SKY, not an Phoblocht.