Shannon-Heathrow

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PMI

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I admit I am from the Midwest so I may be somewhat biosed but I have to illustrate my disappointment at the Government's attitude to the problem. I am not going to go into the problems this discision will create, suffice to say that it will be catistrophic for the Region.
Why did the Government keep their 25% + share holding. Maybe it is to save the Dublin and Cork Heathrow slots in the future.
I'm particularly disappointed with the performance (or lack of) the total group of Midwest FF TDs. They were all talk when the announcement was made but alas, the brave words did not turn to action when they were required. I was disgusted with Willie O'Dea who did not even bother to attend the debate in the Dail but was able to crawl out to vote against the interest of his constituents. They say that they were satisfied with what Bertie and Co. were going to do in finding a replacement service, but surely the news from BMI today puts that in trouble.
The Midwest TDs did not stand up to be counted when they were most needed. They were most likely afraid of a backlash from the party. Surely as a group, there would have been safety in numbers.
I ask all the people of Clare, Limerick, Galway, Tipperary, and Tralee come out now and let these people know who put them in their jobs and most importantly, why they put them there.
 
I thought it may have been spelled wrong but I would have also thought that spelling was not important on this or any other site. You obviously know all about computers.
I'm sorry but I thought the issues were more important then spelling.
 
If Aer Lingus is to be run as a commercial air line then I see no problem with them taking a commercial decision. The fact that no other carrier is willing to step into their shoes just shows that they made the correct decision.
That said I do think that there should be government support for Shannon airport and it should try to attract other carriers into Shannon with discounted landing charges etc.
I'm from Dublin so I am probably biased but I resent having to spend two hours in Shannon at 4 in the morning on my way back from America just to subsidise a regional airport. I pay taxes so that the government can subsidise infrastructure that would not otherwise be viable, a subsidy that I support, but the people of Shannon and the surrounding area should accept that no commercial airline will use their most valuable landing slots to fly from there.
I do not think that airports should be run to make a profit, just as trains should not; they provide an essential infrastructural function.
 
I accept your argument with regards to commercial airlines making a profit although I fail to see the difference with trains. However, the Heathrow -Shanon route was profitable and may very well turn out to have been more profitable then the Belfast route. I don't believe that this change was a commercial decision. It was a political one, probably part and parcel of the Belfast agreement. Did you notice that Paisley's photo call on the day of the announcement at the same time as the Irish ministers said they knew nothing and were shocked. Other airlines were not prepared to step in but some of them said that they could not do so at such short notice.

I do agree that you should not have to wait for 2 hours in Shannon on route to the US. but the same thing sometimes happens to Shannon passengers in reverse. That is the present position, no need to go back years to make a current point. The truth is that there is business for individual direct flights from Dublin and Shannon to the US.

Getting back to the original problem. The Government, rightly or wrongly kept 25+% of Aer Lingus shares. According to the then Minister of Transport, Martin Cullen, they kept them to protect regional interests and particularly the Heathrow slots out of Dublin, Cor and Shannon. Have you heard anything from Mr. Cullen recently on the matter.

Earlier on in the year Aer Lingus issued a new time table for Cork Airport and one of the Heathrow flights had mysteriously disappeared. This was aggressaively queried and the flight suddenly reapeared on the time table. Aer Lingus say that this was an error, but could it be that Mr. Martin intervened.
 
I don't think it was political, I think it was commercial. I think that the government should not have sold Aer Lingus but when they did they should have sold it all. The way things are not they have the worst of both worlds.
If the government want flights from Shannon to Heathrow then they should make it commercially attractive for commercial air lines to provide them.
Belfast has a larger population pool, so it does make sense to grow it as a hub. The fact they Shannon was profitable is irrelevant, the fact is that it has to be more attractive than Belfast, which, it seems, it is not.
 
I accept your argument with regards to commercial airlines making a profit although I fail to see the difference with trains. However, the Heathrow -Shanon route was profitable and may very well turn out to have been more profitable then the Belfast route. I don't believe that this change was a commercial decision. It was a political one, probably part and parcel of the Belfast agreement. Did you notice that Paisley's photo call on the day of the announcement at the same time as the Irish ministers said they knew nothing and were shocked. Other airlines were not prepared to step in but some of them said that they could not do so at such short notice.

I do agree that you should not have to wait for 2 hours in Shannon on route to the US. but the same thing sometimes happens to Shannon passengers in reverse. That is the present position, no need to go back years to make a current point. The truth is that there is business for individual direct flights from Dublin and Shannon to the US.

Getting back to the original problem. The Government, rightly or wrongly kept 25+% of Aer Lingus shares. According to the then Minister of Transport, Martin Cullen, they kept them to protect regional interests and particularly the Heathrow slots out of Dublin, Cor and Shannon. Have you heard anything from Mr. Cullen recently on the matter.

Earlier on in the year Aer Lingus issued a new time table for Cork Airport and one of the Heathrow flights had mysteriously disappeared. This was aggressaively queried and the flight suddenly reapeared on the time table. Aer Lingus say that this was an error, but could it be that Mr. Martin intervened.
 
Government statements indicate that ministers/TDs had no idea of how little power they had as a minority share holder or even how public companies operate. For Ryanair it helpfully meant once they got over 20% of the shares no other company could realistically hope to takeover Aer Lingus.

Shannon is is a throwback to when airplanes had more limited flying ranges - now an airport 20 miles east of Limerick would make more economic sense, it could even be put on our rail "network". If Shannon-Heathrow was sufficently profitable companies would be fighting to open their own Heathrow route - they evidently are not.

Why don't some of the businessmen complaining club together and open up a route - starting an airline is easier than starting many other businesses - making money out of it is another thing. As an example some Cork business men set up their own airline a few years ago - the friendly semi-state Aer Lingus crushed every route they tried by opening their own competing service.
 
I think you are missing the point. Ryanair has plenty of daily flights from Shannon to London. (Stansted and Gatwick). The majority of the Aer Lingus passengers were travelling onwards to other European and World destinations. Unfortunately, Heathrow is THE major hub for this.

It's not as easy as you suggest to set up other flights into Heathrow as the slots are not available.

The fact still remains (rightly or wrongly) that the Government held on to the shares in AL to protect these slots for not only Shannon but Cork and Dublin as well.
 
PMI said:
The fact still remains (rightly or wrongly) that the Government held on to the shares in AL to protect these slots for not only Shannon but Cork and Dublin as well.
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That's the thing, they were wrong to do this. Aer Lingus is either a commercial enterprise or it isn't. If the government didn't want them to make commercial decisions then they shouldn't have sold them off. As I have said I don't think they should have sold them but it's typical of Bertie's FF to do something like this.
 
If Aer Lingus is to be run as a commercial air line then I see no problem with them taking a commercial decision. The fact that no other carrier is willing to step into their shoes just shows that they made the correct decision.
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I agree. If it was profitable, someone would have stepped in. Conspiracy theories about Aer Lingus giving up profitable routes to help the peace process don't stand up. These people are businessmen, not politicians, and have a duty to their shareholders.
 
Its amazing to see the extent to which partitionism has shown its ugly face in this debate. Apparently the State should use all its muscle to protect the Mid-West from change. Those of us in the North-East who would stand to gain from this change apparently don't matter a damn.
 

But there are already umpteen flights from Belfast and Dublin to LHR everyday - how will it benefit you?
 
Its nothing to do with me personally - I haven't been in LHR for a decade and don't intend going there again unless I have to.

My point is that improved transport links from the North East to LHR benefits the North-East in the same way that reduced transport links from the Mid West to LHR hurts the Mid-West. The negative coverage this subject is getting has totally failed to take into account the benefits to places like Dundalk and Monaghan. Its as if the North-East can go to hell once the Mid West is looked after.
 

How does this improve transport links from Dundalk to LHR?
 
The Nort East is not going to benefit from this move so I fail to get your point, the Midwest is going to lose. MrKeane is right in saying that there is already a no. of services from Belfast to Heathrow in existance. AL is now going to have to compete with these services. They had no competition to Heathrow from Shannon.

Wheather you like it or not, the Gov. was supposed to protect regional interest. (pre-election promise lol). There are a lot of jobs depending on this and there is a lot of proposed investment on hold. You may not believe this but are you prepared to chance. By the way, it's not only the people from the Midwest that do not agree with the AL pull out. Recent polls show that people from the East and North East are also in the majority against the move.

The fact remains that the Gov. held on to the shares in Aer Lingus to protect Regional interests (commercial or not). Lets see what they would do if the same happened to Cork or Dublin.

No one has yet commented on the Paisley photo call at the same time as the Irish Ministers declared their ignorance on the matter.
 
ubiquitous said:
More flights and more competition between airlines.
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Its 75K from Dundalk to Dublin Airport and 100K to Belfast Airport, do you think there will be a lot of Dundalk people going out of their way to go to Belfast international airport for 3 expensive Aer Lingus flights a day instead of Dublin airport with far more frequent flights to all London Airports.

Miss your flight to / from Belfast international with Aer Lingus and you are waiting about 6 hours for the next one, miss your flight to / from Dublin and there will be another one in an hour or so.

There are probably over 100 flights between all Dublin / Belfast airports and all London airports every day, do you really think that 3 extra flights from farthest away Belfast will really benefit the people of Dundalk?

I doubt this will make a blind bit of difference to the people of Dundalk but if that is what you want to believe then I couldn't be bothered arguing with you over it.
 
PMI said:
The North East is not going to benefit from this move
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So how come at least one FG TD (Seymour Crawford) has broken with his party's stance on the Shannon issue and publicly welcomed the Aer Lingus decision?
 

Well, I live 100 miles from Belfast International and 70 from Dublin Airport. I use Belfast whenever possible as it takes me less time to drive 100 miles up there than 70 miles through gridlock to get to Dublin.

MrKeane said:
Miss your flight to / from Belfast international with Aer Lingus and you are waiting about 6 hours for the next one, miss your flight to / from Dublin and there will be another one in an hour or so.
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Indeed, but this logic also applies against Shannon?
 
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