Selling Canadian Property

I have purchased a popertyu in a development in Canada. Due to personal reasons i have to sell the property. Luckily for me the property has increased in value. However the developers have the rights to sell the property first and it dosent seem to me that tehy are that bothered as they must first sell other propertys in the development. can anyone recommend an estate agent based in Ireland preferably that could sell the property for me?

Would you not sell it quicker if you used a Canadian real estate agent to sell it locally?

Are you looking to resell it in Ireland at the Paddy rate?

Luckily for me the property has increased in value

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Don't forget that when you do sell you have to pay CGT in ireland on the gain after expenses.

Hi there, did you sell your property? Where is it located? thanks

No. didnt manage to sell the property yet. it is in humber Valley resort. do you know someone that would be interested?

I've just bought in Edmonton and might have some money left over. Wont know for definite for another 1-2 weeks. I might be interested in looking at your property in Hummer Valley if you send details. Thanks

How would the irish gov know about cgt on a apt sale in canada if the seller doesn t tell them?

Sunrock that is naughty.

I dont know Canadian CGT rates but they are probably higher than Irish therfore possibly no Irish CGT on a disposal - and by the way its the right thing to do

You would need to declare disposal to Irish Revenue on your tax return and claim double tax relief in Ireland for any Canadian CGT paid (subject to relevant limits etc).

viztopia,

Have you sold your place in Humber Valley yet ?.

I went on an inspection trip a couple of years ago and was seduced by the very high quality of the constructon. However, monthly maintenance costs were high and the rental numbers just didn't stack up, with the number of chalets to be filled by the occupants of just one charter flight each week. We were assured thee would be no more than 1,000 chalets to be built at a rate of 50 per year on plots of at least 1 acre, and a second golf course. They are now building apartment blocks and there's no sign of the second course. A recent article in the Sunday Times quoted one owner as saying rental returns were poor, but he could afford to keep it a a holiday home (lucky guy). The same article reported that Pure Intl. were no longer marketing the development as they didn't think it was a particularly good investment.

Interestingly, it's only been marketed to British & Irish investors, not Canadians or N.Americans, which speaks volumes.

Glad I went and looked, but even more glad I did research and concluded it wasn't an investment for me.

The reason the agents don't really want to sell yours is the commission they get on new builds. They like to pretend they get poor commission so if you ask them to sell they don't like to ask for 10 to 20% commission as then you know they ripped you off. Anyway, if you really want them to sell your property you're going to give them a very good incentive for doing so.

doberden,

In this case the agents and developers are one and the same, so it's not a question of commission but net profit. Average profits on a new build are @ 40%. At Humber Valley I suspect the margin is greater as I was told they got the land very cheaply because they were creating jobs in the poorest part of Canada. So, they've sold this particular property to an 'investor', who is also paying service charges every month. They have little if any incentive to resell it; there are much greater returns to be had by selling the new build, rather than a resale.

As For DonKing's suggestion of using a local agent I suspect they wouldn't touch it as the prices are totally out of alignment with the local area.

This is all yet another reminder to do exhaustive research before parting with your money, particularly with regard to your exit stategy. You should know how you are going to dispose of your investment - at a profit, hopefully - before you buy. Not trying to teach people how to suck eggs, but in this case here were two more reasons I didn't invest; the developer having first call on marketing resales, and local comparables; Humber Valley is very much a top end development, located in a financially bottom end area.

Location, location, location.

I do hope viztopia managed to sell successfully.

BigRog said:

doberden,

In this case the agents and developers are one and the same, so it's not a question of commission but net profit. Average profits on a new build are @ 40%. At Humber Valley I suspect the margin is greater as I was told they got the land very cheaply because they were creating jobs in the poorest part of Canada. So, they've sold this particular property to an 'investor', who is also paying service charges every month. They have little if any incentive to resell it; there are much greater returns to be had by selling the new build, rather than a resale.

As For DonKing's suggestion of using a local agent I suspect they wouldn't touch it as the prices are totally out of alignment with the local area.

This is all yet another reminder to do exhaustive research before parting with your money, particularly with regard to your exit stategy. You should know how you are going to dispose of your investment - at a profit, hopefully - before you buy. Not trying to teach people how to suck eggs, but in this case here were two more reasons I didn't invest; the developer having first call on marketing resales, and local comparables; Humber Valley is very much a top end development, located in a financially bottom end area.

Location, location, location.

I do hope viztopia managed to sell successfully.

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I know this is an old thread, but just came across an update on the Humber Valley Resort.
http://www.humbervalley.com/letter.asp

Just wondered if OP managed to sell becuase if he hasn't then he may be in trouble. They have filed the quivalent of a US Chapter 11.
Does anyone know if there are any Irish investors still involved in this as they were majorily advertising here and I know a few invested ?

Whew !. I had a lucky escape !. As I posted previously I went on an inspection trip (Nov. 2004) and was very impressed with the chalets and promised facilities, and I was seduced by the idea of owning a luxury property on a large plot. Fortunately, I was looking for an investment not a holiday home and when I got back and crunched the numbers I just couldn't see it working: monthly maintenance fees were high; projected rentals were pure fiction; there was only one agent marketing the resort in UK - Barwell Leisure (since gone bust); only one direct flight per week and even if that was full it would only take 50 chalets to accommodate the passengers; a car would be essential to go anywhere, including the 'promised' spa and pool. The more I analysed the more I came to the conclusion that it was a pyramid; the resort needed to keep selling plots & properties to keep going; rentals were minimal so the whole edifice could only survive by selling more properties. I know that several people on my trip bought and they have my sympathy as their properties are all but worthless; the facilities (restaurant, club, golf course) are closed, and the weekly flight has been cancelled. I was lucky - if I'd bought I'd now be bankrupt.

We visited the resort in April of last year and were quite impressed with it. The chalets were very well built and kitted out. The smallest version was just under 200 sq. m. so they were large houses rather than chalets really. We visited one that was nearly 600 sq. m. so some people pumped a lot of money into property there. The values were astronomical when compared with the going price in the local town of Corner Brook.

We didn't go into the whole investment aspect of it in too much detail as we were there for a holiday. Having said that, the immediate reaction was that it did seem remarkably quiet considering it was over Easter, and the overheads to keep it running must have been enormous, particularly seeing as Humber Valley were subsidising the flights into Deer Lake. The flight we travelled on was only 1/4 full. Even without delving into it too much it certainly wouldn't have come across as a very good investment purchase. But then most resorts aren't anyway.

We were told that 10% of the property was purchased by Irish. I think they sold about 200 chalets in all, so there must be at least 20 Irish owners. As far as we can tell a lot of the properties there are up for sale now as, come snow season, they will be completely inaccessible.

It's a shame for that area of Newfoundland as it isn't one with a lot of employment opportunities. There are a couple of good local blog links at the end of this blog on our site if you want to keep up to date on what's currently happening there.

Being a big fan of Canada, I looked at property in Canada but the other side was a far better bet.
I checked out a few places in the Rockies, but for the life of me I could not understand why someone would buy in New Foundland. Sure it is shorter distance as crow flies, but you could end up flying to Toronto and then back on yourself to get there.
For tourists numbers i.e. rental opportunity, you have to look at west coast.
Winter you have sking and summer you have tourists looking at scenery etc. As always location is important.
I could never see Humber Valley place getting anywhere near the numbers needed to make it sustainable as investment.

Sadly I can see some people, including if I remember correctly some family that was on the Irish Property magazine, that bought and have affectively blown a lot of money.