Selling a Property with a sitting tenant

NoRegretsCoyote said:

the right of a landlord to seek a termination on the grounds of need to sell would move Ireland closer to giving tenants essentially unbreakable tenancies

Click to expand...

Did you mean to say "the removal of the right of a landlord..." ?

NoRegretsCoyote said:

But it's totally different in Ireland. A tenant automatically accrues an indefinite tenancy after six months of occupancy no matter what is in the rental contract.

Click to expand...

Oh, I know.

The whole idea of “tenancies of indefinite duration” is bonkers - I’m just talking about the intention to sell ground in isolation.

T McGibney said:

Likely to be significant. You'd be effectively barred from selling to owner-occupies, who seem to comprise most buyers these days.

Click to expand...

Mortgage lenders might not lend on a property with a sitting tenant either.

MrViking said:

As soon as even a draft bill which resembles anything close to this is drafted by a ruling government, I will be giving notice to quit across all of my rentals. And same if any ruling government proceeds with holding a referendum on the constitutional right to housing. Either of these events will be my trigger to exit.

Click to expand...

Assuming they won't back date it, or make it immediate to stop that. Because everyone will do the same and they will want to block that.

NoRegretsCoyote said:

....
I am not a campaigner for landlords' rights. I think the rules with regard to termination of tenancy and rent review were far too landlord-friendly c. 2016 and many of the changes since then bring about an element of balance for the tenant. But the pendulum has swung too far and seems likely to swing further. Incumbent tenants will do well out of it, but at the expense of new ones who will have no homes to look for.

Click to expand...

Before this a landlord had other things they could try to evict a tenant. Cutting off services etc. This was a time when there wasn't a shortage of rentals so you weren't going to be homeless if evicted or the lease ended. But all those things are all illegal now which is correct. But they never put in place any timely means of eviction. That is a potentially huge cost for the LL. It has the potential to wipe out any profit for the business making the whole thing pointless.

So according to the RTB bad tenants are rare (dubious stats). But it does raise the risk considerably as an investment or business.

Sarenco said:

I’m just talking about the intention to sell ground in isolation.

Click to expand...

but I think they have to be looked at in tandem.

If the law by default create tenancies of indefinite duration (as in Ireland) then it's only fair to give landlords grounds to break them. A tenant cannot sign away any of her rights in the RTA.

If (as in the UK) the tenancy period is whatever the landlord voluntarily agrees I think it's only fair that the tenant can't be thrown out because the landlord wants to sell. The state should vindicate private contracts voluntarily entered into.

NoRegretsCoyote said:

If (as in the UK) the tenancy period is whatever the landlord voluntarily agrees I think it's only fair that the tenant can't be thrown out because the landlord wants to sell. The state should vindicate private contracts voluntarily entered into.

Click to expand...

I couldn’t agree more.

NoRegretsCoyote said:

tenancy period is whatever the landlord voluntarily agrees I think it's only fair that the tenant can't be thrown out because the landlord wants to sell

Click to expand...

if you mean, "break the fixed term lease in order to sell"; then by and large I'd agree. The problem here is that we don't have fixed term leases.

MrViking said:

I’m not sure this is correct. My understanding is that you can terminate a Part IV tenancy, but if you have a fixed term lease, then you cannot give notice to quit until that fixed term has ended. Hence why most landlords simply avoid entering into fixed lease terms these days.

Click to expand...

That is correct. If you grant a one year lease, you are shooting yourself in the foot. You can't do anything until the one year is up. Better to do a Part IV straight off, then, if the tenant isn't suitable you can give them notice to quit before the six months is up

Only answer that i can see is to rent for six months to different tenants.

The Labour Party also have published a bill on tenants rights.

Their bill will also prohibit a landlord giving notice to end a tenancy if he wants to sell.

According to the bill “Right now, the thresholds for evicting a good, hard working and loyal tenant is very low. People are often forced to uproot their whole lives at short notice without any good reason”.

Not sure what they mean by very low thresholds for evicting a tenant.
Currently, in my opinion “good loyal” tenants are well protected from evictions at short notice.
I didn’t buy an investment property and plan on being a landlord for life.
The government can keep their tax concessions or whatever other lukewarm proposals emerge in the budget. The threat that in the near future landlords will either have to remain in the business or be forced to sell their property below market rates with a sitting tenant will certainly not encourage new landlords nor stop the exit of current ones.