Will you be living in Ireland when doing this work?I plan to do some self employed work in Ireland over the coming years, in large part motivated by the hope this will allow me to top up my Irish PRSI (pension).
Won't the OP be disqualified from both paying PRSI and accumulating PRSI credits as long as they remain non-resident here?My interpretation:
You will be resident and ordinarily resident in the UK but Irish domiciled. So:
1) you are liable for income tax on Irish-sourced income. If this is €5,000 or more in a year you pay €500 Class S PRSI or 4% whichever is higher. This will get you 52 Class S credits for the year.
I wondered about this myself and did a bit more reading. Revenue guidance (from assets.gov.ie/38671/0aa2cf3d831a4076b1b6208e1287d9f9.pdf) states that "People classified by the Office of the Revenue Commissioners as non-residents who holdWon't the OP be disqualified from both paying PRSI and accumulating PRSI credits as long as they remain non-resident here?
If I were you, I'd frankly be relying on much more than "a reasonable implication" here.I imagine a reasonable implication from this is that Class S contributions should be paid on earned income from non residents, and this would fit the case of someone like me doing self employed work in Ireland, while living and PAYE working in the UK.
A carpenter flies from London to Knock and fits a kitchen, gets paid, and flies back to London a week later. That is self employment carried out wholly in Ireland by someone resident in the UK. There are infinite scenarios.I also struggle to understand how you can be "doing self employed work in Ireland" while living in the UK.
A carpenter flies from London to Knock and fits a kitchen, gets paid, and flies back to London a week later. That is self employment carried out wholly in Ireland by someone resident in the UK. There are infinite scenarios.
I wouldn't be relying on Revenue guidance alone here.My reading of the Revenue guidance is also that only unearned income by non-residents is exempt from Class S PRSI. OP is talking very clearly about employment income.
Maybe so. Imagine a teacher who lives and works in Enniskillen and spends his holidays farming on his land near Ballyconnell. He is resident and a PAYE employee in the UK and engaged in self-employment in Ireland. There are many scenarios - OP hasn’t given us any idea what his line of business is.Anyway, it makes no sense for a business in London to take on a carpentry job in Mayo.
What else is there to rely on besides Revenue and DSP guidance?I wouldn't be relying on Revenue guidance alone here.
Non-ordinarily resident and not domiciled in Ireland
You might be non-resident, non-ordinarily resident and not domiciled in Ireland for a tax year. In this case you will pay Irish tax on:
revenue.ie/en/jobs-and-pensions/tax-residence/tax-tax-credits-non-residents.aspx
- your Irish income and your income from a trade, profession or employment performed in Ireland
- any gains on Irish specified assets only (land, buildings, minerals and assets of a trade carried on in Ireland).
The exclusions to Class S PRSI are listed in my previous post, and on my reading do not apply to someone self-employed in Ireland and resident and working in the PAYE system in the UK.Do you need to pay 'Pay Related Social Insurance (PRSI)'?
You must pay PRSI if you are self-employed and:
revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/guide-to-self-assessment/prsi-need-pay.aspx
- you have a minimum annual income of €5,000
- and
- you are aged between 16 and 66.
I also struggle to understand how you can be "doing self employed work in Ireland" while living in the UK.
In fairness, that's a totally different situation to your carpenter jetting off from Stansted to fix a wonky cupboard in Swinford.Maybe so. Imagine a teacher who lives and works in Enniskillen and spends his holidays farming on his land near Ballyconnell. He is resident and a PAYE employee in the UK and engaged in self-employment in Ireland. There are many scenarios - OP hasn’t given us any idea what his line of business is.
A determination from DSP Scope Section would be the most obvious one.What else is there to rely on besides Revenue and DSP guidance?
No, I've already given my thoughts and the logic underlying them. No way am I going to spend valuable time and energy researching the topic for you. That's for you to do.As an overall point, given your post history I appreciate you will be more knowledgeable than me on these matters, so it would be good to pointed toward the material that underlies your reasoning and scepticism.
Your profession is in the UK, not in Ireland.This may be beside the point but to ease your struggles, I am a medical professional working in routine clinical practice in the UK. I would offer a medico-legal assessment practice in Ireland, travelling over and spending a few days as required. Income generated would be from "a trade, profession or employment performed in Ireland".
The activity is performed in Ireland which is the relevant criterion. Even if it was relevant, the OP plans to carry self out self-employment of a type which is materially different from their UK employment.Your profession is in the UK, not in Ireland.
A determination from DSP Scope Section would be the most obvious one.
The types of case that Scope Section deal with include the PRSI insurability of:
- company directors
- family employments
- partnerships
- civil and public servants
- office holders including specified ‘public office holders’
- employment status (whether a worker is an employee or self-employed for PRSI purposes)
- miscellaneous cases including part-time, casual or voluntary work, unearned income and so on
OP will be neither an employer nor an employee. It says nothing about self-employed persons like @bell81Employers and employees or former employees, or their representatives, may apply to have an employment investigated to make sure that the correct class of PRSI is applied.
Yet you’ve spent your time trying to cast doubt on a topic where there is none.No way am I going to spend valuable time and energy researching the topic for you.
OK if you say so.Yet you’ve spent your time trying to cast doubt on a topic where there is none.
The full Bilateral Social Security Treaty is 44 pages long and here.From the link below:
"When working in the CTA, you pay into only one state’s social security scheme at a time and are entitled, when in the other state, to the same social security rights, and are under the same obligations, as citizens of that state."
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