Self Build: Written quote from Plumber but now he wants to increase price?

I am in the middle of doing a self build, I hired a plumber based on his written quote.

He did the first fixings without any problem, and I paid him in full for the first fix.

He then came back to do the second fixings and left some materials onsite he had then added some additional charges to the quote. Even though nothing had been added nor had anything changed from when he had done the original quote. This extra charges were never discussed, nor were they ever explained they were merely hidden in the invoice.

When I called him on this, he agreed to honour his original quote. This then happened a second time after he re-issued the invoice. Just the extra cost were now on different products

He then asked for 50% of the second fix balance upfront before he would proceed with the work. I then asked for a full breakdown what work was to be carried out and what what would be left to do(this included full price breakdown).

When I added everything together I noticed that he had added an extra €2000 to the total price.

When I brought this up with him he couldn't give me an explanation a heated exchange followed.

I then met with him in person to get a full detailed explanation as to the increase and he asked me to ignore it. I couldn't get an answer from him as to why he was constantly trying to increase the cost of the plumbing.

Ultimately I called it off and asked him to remove his materials from the site and looked for another plumber. He then sent me a bill for all the materials he left on site, the value of the materials over the counter at B&Q or any other Building supply is €1500 and he is looking for €2600. So I feel even now he is trying to screw me on this.

I've offered to return the materials and pay for any re-stocking charges. My builder thinks I am mental and that this guy is simply taking advantage because he knows I'm not as hardened as a builder. I know there are plenty of cowboys out there and I should harden the F up and not give them a second thouoght, but this is bugging me. Any advice would be great

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

ninjaBob said:

My builder thinks I am mental and that this guy is simply taking advantage because he knows I'm not as hardened as a builder.

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Sounds like you have a good builder there. This plumber is trying to take you for a ride.

Send him a registered letter telling him he can pick up his stuff in the next 30 days, or it's going in a skip. (don't actually put it in a skip even if he doesn't turn up).

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

I had the same sort of problem with a builder. He left about €15’000 worth of stuff on site (20 radiators, loads of power tools etc). He didn’t turn up after 8 weeks (as agreed) so I threw the lot out.

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

Is there anything he can do? In his last phone call he said if I didn't pay up he would send the Debt out for Collection.

I can only imagine this means that he would sell the debt to a debt collector. Legally can he do this? and what course of action can he take? I don't want my credit ruined because of this.

He is blaming me for breaking the "Contract / Agreement", I am arguing that he had several occasions to honour his Quote but failed to do so (I had a written log and have documented everything). He believes this is unreasonable, so I just want to know what he can actually do.

My very primitive knowledge of contract law is that there must be offer and acceptance. Each time he said he would honour his contract was an offer that I accepted, but on his final offer to honour his contract I declined given previous events.

I called CitizensInformation and Consumer Affairs, both had told me that because the overall job was more than €5000 it couldn't go to small claims court and thus would need legal advice.

I just want to be certain as to where I stand before I dig in.

Purple said:

I had the same sort of problem with a builder. He left about €15’000 worth of stuff on site (20 radiators, loads of power tools etc). He didn’t turn up after 8 weeks (as agreed) so I threw the lot out.

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I guess the difference is that you had agreed this with the builder in question.

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

Send him a registered letter advising him that he has left materials on site. Advise he has 4 weeks to collect or else they will be put in skip, he will be liable for cost of skip hire.

astounds me to think there are still cowboys out there in this climate

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

aristotle25 said:

"harden the F up" as you say. He is taken the p*

Do not offer to pay any re-stocking charges etc.

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+1 But does he actually own the materials on site. ie has he paid for them or are they still the property of the supplier he bought them from. it might be worth your while to ring the supplier ,if you know where he got them, and and ask them to collect them.

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

bamboozle said:

Send him a registered letter advising him that he has left materials on site. Advise he has 4 weeks to collect or else they will be put in skip, he will be liable for cost of skip hire.

astounds me to think there are still cowboys out there in this climate

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I would love to release a website/blog showing the paper trail and how it all went down. I am certain I could get it ranked higher in google than his own little business card site.

I was stunned as to how it went down, I only wish I was far more direct and blunt with my final dealings with them. Instead of tryingto resolve the situation. He had 3 opportunities to get it right and failed each, my new plumber reckons his work is pretty shoddy, but most trades people find fault with others work.

donee said:

+1 But does he actually own the materials on site. ie has he paid for them or are they still the property of the supplier he bought them from. it might be worth your while to ring the supplier ,if you know where he got them, and and ask them to collect them.

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I don't know if he had paid for the products, I do know that all he can sue me for is the cost of the materials so he doesn't make a loss, but I suspect there is a supplier somewhere that is owed money for the materials.

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

Any price increase not discussed with client is a non runner, he was chancing his arm.

When he tried again and had no luck, he was chancing his arm.

Now he tries another stunt, again, he is chancing his arm.

Tell him in no uncertain terms, if he doesn't collect his rubbish from your site, it will be dumped. Do not entertain him if he talks about collectors etc. he is chancing his arm.

What materials were left on site?

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

Exactly how much of the second fix did he complete.

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

ninjaBob said:

I would love to release a website/blog showing the paper trail and how it all went down. ...

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If you want rid of this chancer once and for all and whatever stuff he left on-site out of your way, turn your documentation over to your solicitor and ask for a letter to be sent out by registered post detailing everything that has happened and giving him X days to get his stuff out of your house, threatening a storage fee for every day in excess of X.

Make sure if you can that the materials have not been acquired on credit in your name from a supplier (this dirty trick was pulled on a friend, who after paying off the trades bills inclusive of materials, discovered to his surprise that he had delinquent credit accounts at two builders suppliers).

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

DavyJones said:

Any price increase not discussed with client is a non runner, he was chancing his arm.

When he tried again and had no luck, he was chancing his arm.

Now he tries another stunt, again, he is chancing his arm.

Tell him in no uncertain terms, if he doesn't collect his rubbish from your site, it will be dumped. Do not entertain him if he talks about collectors etc. he is chancing his arm.

What materials were left on site?

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Pipes, fittings, Cylinder etc.

I took the serial numbers and went to all the various building suppliers and got a quote on the materials (over the counter @ 21.5% VAT). Even at the most expensive it was over €1000 cheaper than what he was charging. I know there are parts missing as he had explained to me and my builder what would be included in that part of 2nd fixing. The fact that these parts are missing and yet he is still trying to charge full price infuriates me.

Ann1 said:

Exactly how much of the second fix did he complete.

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None, I didn't allow him to start until I got the full breakdown, because once he asked for the 50% upfront I knew something was up. So I asked for a complete breakdown of what was required at second fixing with pricing and noticed the extra money added.

If he had consulted with me about the additional charges, or if I had added anything in from the original spec I wouldn't mind. But this was done on the sly (intentional or not). I was the one who actually had to sit down and work out where the increases were as he wouldn't even humour the idea that his new invoice was wrong.

Anyway he didn't do any work, he just left materials onsite, but did try to charge me more for first fixing after I gave him his marching orders...

mathepac said:

Make sure if you can that the materials have not been acquired on credit in your name from a supplier (this dirty trick was pulled on a friend, who after paying off the trades bills inclusive of materials, discovered to his surprise that he had delinquent credit accounts at two builders suppliers).

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Any idea to find out what suppliers were used (other than code calling).

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

I was contacted today via letter by the plumber that he has sold the outstanding cost of materials to:

"Stubbs Debt Collection Agency"

and that they will be in contact shortly. So what do I do now and what exactly does that mean? Is my credit record ruined because of this guy and what can I do?

I have the money to pay for these materials but out of principal alone I didn't pay simply because he chanced his arm by raising the prices.

I would still like to avoid solicitors, but I think I may be out of options here.

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

ninjaBob said:

I was contacted today via letter by the plumber that he has sold the outstanding cost of materials to:

"Stubbs Debt Collection Agency"

and that they will be in contact shortly. So what do I do now and what exactly does that mean? Is my credit record ruined because of this guy and what can I do?

I have the money to pay for these materials but out of principal alone I didn't pay simply because he chanced his arm by raising the prices.

I would still like to avoid solicitors, but I think I may be out of options here.

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They can't affect your credit rating , only a loan from a financial institution can do that.

It sounds like a bluff to me.

If anyone does get in contact , give them the address where their materials can be picked up. Also ask them who you can send the bill for storage to.

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

Ok, and what powers exactly do a Debt Collection Agency have?

He has also increased the amount owed by €600. So the cost of the materials is now over €3000.

I will send him another registered letter in response threatening legal action, would I be in the right to publish the correspondance?

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

ninjaBob said:

Ok, and what powers exactly do a Debt Collection Agency have?

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In Ireland all they can do is take you to court. Where they will have to prove to a judge you owe the money.

It's very different in the UK , where they have far more power. Some Irish companies have been known to imply/suggest/say they have more power than they actually do.

Re: What to do when someone increases their price?

How did it end?

noah