Road safety ... are we missing the point

[Henny Penny]

After the tragic waste of young lives on the roads recently, and listening to Gerry Ryan rant about imposing a curfew for young drivers and speed limiters on cars I wonder are we missing the point completely.

It strikes me that we are all part of the problem.
For every publican who allows youngsters to be served on his/her premesis, for every mother/father who knows their son/daughter is going out on the tear and asks have they got enough money ... for every parent who worries whether their offspring will get home safely at night ... and sees the car outside and their hungover son/daughter still in bed at 3pm I say what are you doing about it. Why do you continue to reward this reckless, irresponsible attitude to drink and driving in this country.

End of rant, HP

 

[CCOVICH]

I think a lot of it is down to personal responsibility. There is only so much that we (the general public) can do, most of it is down to the people (drivers and passengers) themselves.

A publican can't be expected to know who is driving and who isn't.
Not all accidents are caused by children driving their parents cars. I don't have statistics, and I don't know if they exist, but from the pictures I see, it appears that they are more the 'boy racer' type of cars (unlikely to be a parents).

I see that Minister McDowell has announced that there will be more Gardai on the roads in Inishowen in the wee hours (is this not the "best" way to reduce road deaths rather than speed traps in the middle of the day on dual carriageways/motorways?). Hopefully this will make the young adults of the North West a bit more conscious for their own safety and the safety of others.

I'm from Donegal, and every weekend it feels as if I wake up to news of another road death in the area. I do hope that the situation improves, but that doesn't seem likely, does it?

 

[RainyDay]

Hi HP - I strongly agree with the thrust of your 'rant' which emphasises the importance of personal responsibility (though I'd personally put a bit more responsibility on the drivers themselves, not just their parents). I'm amazed at the constant blame/complaints about the Gardai or the NSC - Why blame them first? Blame the drivers first.

 

[CCOVICH]

I'm amazed at the constant blame/complaints about the Gardai or the NSC - Why blame them first? Blame the drivers first.

Exactly. It's always harder to blame the people who have actually died-that would seem to imply a lack of compasssion. But the truth of the matter is probably that a lot of accidents can be avoided if drivers:

(a) don't drink
(b) don't take unecessary risks
(c) don't drive at excessive speeds on country roads

Most of this is the sole responsibility of drivers themselves. The NSC or the Gardai have no influence on things like the weather or road conditions generally, and have little influence on how people behave on the roads (of course you could argue that more Gardai on the roads at more appropriate times implies a greater risk of getting caught and hence should modify driver behaviour, but that is taking some of the responsibility away from drivers themselves........)

 

[dam099]

Exactly. It's always harder to blame the people who have actually died-that would seem to imply a lack of compasssion. But the truth of the matter is probably that a lot of accidents can be avoided if drivers:

(a) don't drink
(b) don't take unecessary risks
(c) don't drive at excessive speeds on country roads

Most of this is the sole responsibility of drivers themselves. The NSC or the Gardai have no influence on things like the weather or road conditions generally, and have little influence on how people behave on the roads (of course you could argue that more Gardai on the roads at more appropriate times implies a greater risk of getting caught and hence should modify driver behaviour, but that is taking some of the responsibility away from drivers themselves........)

That certainly may appliy to one party (and one car accidents), but often there are two parties to an accident, one of whom may be entirely blameless. Better enforcement of the laws might help protect them from the idiots who won't take personal responsibilty.

 

[CCOVICH]

Of course. But you can't watch all of the people all of the time.

 

[ubiquitous]

You can't expect the Guards to be standing on every bend on the country's roads at 2, 3 at 4 o'clock in the morning on every Friday and Saturday of the year. People have to take individual responsibility for their own actions. Has anyone ever noticed that young males are as reckless on the roads nowadays as ever despite all the high-profile policing efforts in this area?

 

[CCOVICH]

Don't disagree with you on the personal responsibility issue ubiquitous, but not sure if I agree on the "high profile policing efforts". If the more high risk times are 2-4 am on Saturdays and Sundays, then surely there is a case to be made for greater presence (I'm not suggesting every bend etc.) at these times? I would imagine that it would be pretty hard to introduce-people generally don't want to be at work in the wee hours, and if they have to, the shift premiums would probably be significant.

 

[Humpback]

That certainly may appliy to one party (and one car accidents), but often there are two parties to an accident, one of whom may be entirely blameless.

One of the problems I see with this whole thing is the fact that as Irish people, we still don't speak ill of the dead, even in the 21st century.

For example, if the tragic accident in Donegal was caused by the driver in the other car, he'll eventually be villified by all and sundry and dragged through the courts, quite rightly, and be made a show of.

However, if the person at fault was the other driver, who then essentially killed himself and killed his four friends, we'll never actually hear about it. If this driver had done something to cause the accident, we'll never be told, and therefore the information won't be out there to show people what impact their actions can have.

Many of us use our mobile phones while driving. We think that we're fine, and that nothing will happen to us. Yet, if we're told that last year for example, 15 other people thought that nothing would happen to them while they drove using their phone, yet are now dead, it may make us take a little more personal responsibility ourselves.

 

[Humpback]

If the more high risk times are 2-4 am on Saturdays and Sundays

I believe this to be anecdotal rather than hard fact. I don't have information to prove otherwise, yet trying to find out is extraordinarily difficult.

This kind of information providing should be the realm of the NSC. Yet, if you check their [broken link removed], there is no information that I would deem actually useful there.

At least the has a little more information, but still not enough detail.

 

[CCOVICH]

Yes, I agree, and that is why I used the word "if". I remember an article in the Irish Times, probably in the last six months, that gave statistics on times of accidents. Although it is anecdotal, it certainly seems that more accidents happen at these times, based on what we see/hear from the media. I'm not suggesting that all resources are directed at areas where there is no evidence that they are more high risk than others, but why not gather enough data to allow an objective assessment made of what and where the high risk areas are, and then police them accordingly, i.e. a "risk-based policing" methodology.

 

[daltonr]

The Actual most common time to have an accident are in the Morning and Evening Rush Hours. But serious acidents resulting in Death or Serious Injury tend to be those that occur during the night.

The reasons are obvious:

Less Traffic and less fear of Police Presence, and less fear of encountering other road users means people drive faster, particularly in Rural areas and on Main Roads.
Fatigue and falling asleep at the wheel is more common at night.
Drink Driving is more common at night.
Driving conditions are worse including lower temperatures, Fog, and of course Dark.

The trend night time accidents tend to be more serious is repeated all around the world and Ireland is no different. You only have to compare your experience of turning on your radio in the morning, Vs turning it on in the evening.

On an almost daily basis the Morning bulletin will include details of someone killed overnight. Not so in the evening bulletins.

Interestingly politicians will site the fact that the number of cars increasing with the number of deaths not following suit as a sign that their policies are working. This means nothing of the sort. There's evidence (disputed by some) that ratio of road deaths per car will decrease as the number of cars increases, regardless of the policies you introduce.

-Rd

 

[Humpback]

The Actual most common time to have an accident are in the Morning and Evening Rush Hours. But serious acidents resulting in Death or Serious Injury tend to be those that occur during the night.

The most deadly time to be driving a car is between the hours of 6pm and 10pm.

There's 30% more accidents causing deaths between those hours than between the hours of midnight and 4am.

 

[daltonr]

That's facinating. What I've read about this is pretty limited but My understanding was that driving in the dark increased the liklihood of a serious accident by a fairly significant margin.

There was a study in Utah that showed that 20% of fatal crashes happened between 10PM and 6AM.

Another study also from the states showed that nearly half of all fatal accidents involved alcohol, and almost half of those happened between 8PM and 4AM on Weekends.

Since 6PM to 10PM would be daylight for about a third of the year I never would have guessed that those hours were particularly dangerours. Although now that you mention it I did hear something about DUSK accidents a while back.

Also just thinking about it, the most difficult driving conditions can sometimes be when the Sun is low in the SKY, you can literally round a corner at speed and be blinded instantly. Whereas in Rain, Fog, Snow etc, you aren't usually surprised like that.

Also during the hours you mention you've got the combination of declining conditions and still a sizable number of cars on the road. Late at night conditions are worse but the number of cars is much lower.

-Rd