Road Deaths

C

Chamar

Guest
Does anyone else feel that the whole approach to preventing road deaths is misdirected?

It seems harsh, but as road deaths are a statistical probability is all the money spent on ad campaigns etc. the best allocation of resources? When you consider that a) it hasn't worked and b) certain health measures e.g.suicide prevention are more deserving and would make more of a difference imo

Do those graphic ads and images actually work? Personally I'm of the opinion that they don't. When I switch on the tv the road safety ads, while not a pleasant watch, often feature less shocking/disturbing scenes than the programme itself. Plus they don't even look realistic to me.

If the government are so serious about tackling the issue:
  • Why don't they breath test drivers coming from pubs? and/or compel rural pubs to establish some sort of transportation for their patrons?
  • Why don't they actually enforce the penalty points system?
  • Could they not fit/instruct cars be fitted with screeching internal alarms that go off when they pass the speed limit? As part of the NCT requirements maybe?
  • Shouldn't they stop L-drivers driving alone?
  • Put speed cameras everywhere?
  • Introduce a quota system a-la clamping for catching speeders, drunks etc.?
Also, it just bemuses me that the government can spend millions upon millions on e-voting etc., have nothing to show for it, yet can't introduce obvious safety meaures to promote road safety? Also, in the last 2 years I've had my tax checked about 5 times yet can't even remember PASSING someone stopped for speeding.

There are probably other ways, and other things that the money could be spent on to save more people on and off the roads.

Finally, if you have lost someone in a traffic accident, I hope my post hasn't offended you - I know it's easy to talk statistics so I apologise for that. I am curious as to what people think though.
 
The adverts play on the emotions, but the arguments are statistical. Unfortunately our no.s are bad relative to the rest of Europe & apparently are increasing, while in most of the rest of Europe the rates are decreasing.

I think road traffic accidents are something that have affected most people these days, to a greater or lesser extent.
 
Here are what I think the answers to your questions are, intermingled with opinion:

  • Why don't they breath test drivers coming from pubs? and/or compel rural pubs to establish some sort of transportation for their patrons?
Breath testing people purely because they are coming out of a pub is a breach of civil liberties.

Who will pay for rural pubs transportation? - surely not the publicans? This extra cost will be reflected in the price of the drink - probably to the extent where no-one would be able to afford to drink and drive anyway.

  • Why don't they actually enforce the penalty points system?
The penalty points system is purely yet another method of tax collection. Motorists are easy targets. I'd prefer a police force that actually investigates and prevents crime rather than acts as tax collectors.

  • Could they not fit/instruct cars be fitted with screeching internal alarms that go off when they pass the speed limit? As part of the NCT requirements maybe?
This might scare some motorists, causing a crash. It's a good idea in principle. Maybe some system that can't be easily disabled, but also doesn't adversely affect the driver too much.

  • Shouldn't they stop L-drivers driving alone?
Yes. Although they'd need to sort out the driving test waiting list scandel. This is probably too much effort.

  • Put speed cameras everywhere?
Civil liberties again.

  • Introduce a quota system a-la clamping for catching speeders, drunks etc.?
So the guards get paid per victim? - a scary thought.
 
Cars in Japan have buzzers that go off when the car goes over the speed limit. I think it's a great idea.
 
I'm not sure why all the emphasis is on 'what the Govt should do' - What about personal responsibility? What should WE do?
 
I live in a rural area and the roads around are highly dangerous. There are no road signs for dangerous bends and at night a car could leave the road and land in a drain. ( in the past two months we have seen three) There are no crash barriers anywhere to be seen on the secondary roads where the speed limit is 80 K. The local councils dont grit the roads and you can easily get run off the road with all these big lorries that take up most of the road going full speed and in a hurry.

Another thing is I believe drivers are blinded by the lights of other cars and leave the road. It is not all down to speed or drink driving. Around here it is the state of the roads where there is building going on everywhere and the roads are very dirty.

Combine that with farmers and their tractors (spreading manure) where most of it is left on the road. There is very little attention given to road safety in country areas. Speed cameras around here would be of no use unless the hedges are kept trimmed. More needs to be done to make sure animals are not straying on the road at night which is a regular thing as well. More research needs to be done into road deaths because I am sure its not all down to drink etc. Its all too easy to say someone was drinking or speeding.
 
Purple said:
Cars in Japan have buzzers that go off when the car goes over the speed limit. I think it's a great idea.
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In my opinion (and experience) speed has a lot less to do with accidents than stupid misjudgements and bad decisions.

All cars should have 3.0 litre engines to get them out of the way of the truck when they make that bad judgement to 'pass that fell out'...

BM
 
Chamar said:
Do those graphic ads and images actually work?
.
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One which certainly had an impact on me (possibly also related to the fact that it came out I think not long after I passed my test) is the one where there's a little boy playing football in the garden and it moves between him and a man playing football then going for a drink and driving home, car mounts kerb and car flips over into garden.

I thought it did a good job of showing how easily accidents happen and how a small thing becomes a huge one if you're not paying attention.
 
Chamar said:
  • Could they not fit/instruct cars be fitted with screeching internal alarms that go off when they pass the speed limit? As part of the NCT requirements maybe?
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A ludicrous idea, It would cause more accidents than it would ever prevent not to mention it would be a policing of individuals.

Chamar said:
  • Put speed cameras everywhere?
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ yeeeeeeeehaaaa $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
Look at whats happened in England and particulary Wales, that type of policy has turned the idea of safety into a massive cash cow. Even the small amount of cameras we have here are placed in areas that are a joke, 2 in particular to Dublin are at the SPA hotel on n4 and the M50. why arent they on rural roads where most fatal accidents occur? Though it already looks like their going to bring in privatised speed camera operators...god help us all!

As for the ads, fatalities are increasing so obviously they dont work, it would be better to put the money into educating the kids in school, something like a "Drivers ed" class in the US.
 
by janet
One which certainly had an impact on me (possibly also related to the fact that it came out I think not long after I passed my test) is the one where there's a little boy playing football in the garden and it moves between him and a man playing football then going for a drink and driving home, car mounts kerb and car flips over into garden.
Click to expand...

I found that ad affected me as I have small children and so could imagine myself in the father shoes yet so easily could picture myself in the youth's shoes in so far as he wasn't my classic drink/drive image just a lad after having an extra pint with his friends and was all full of joy until the accident.

Also find the ad with the mother/son and the driver cuts into the road and knocks them down to be graffic but wonder does it only affect parents of kids rather than the youths they feature in the ads?

Also don't think the enforcing the penalty points system reduces accidents as usually the speed cameras are set up on the best stretches of roads and catch people doing 10km over the limit whereas on the roads where the accidents do happen it would be unsafe to have quardai out on the roads! Also a lot of accidents occur late at night with often no other car involved where speeding checkpoints are never going to be around!

Don't think that rural pubs should have to provide transport as a designated driver scheme should operate just as well. If you have no transport organised - don't drink!

Do think more money should be spent on suicide awareness but these 2 compaigns should not be mutually exclusive!
 
rpmacmurphy said:
As for the ads, fatalities are increasing so obviously they dont work, it would be better to put the money into educating the kids in school, something like a "Drivers ed" class in the US.
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Apparently this is what the autorities in Northern Ireland are giving credit to for their recent drop in road deaths. Education mainly, plus a policy of identifying black-spot right turns and widening the roads at these points so a car can right turn without being rear-ended.

Education also ties in to Rainydays comment on personal responsibility.
 
I personally think it has alot to do with people driving in a hurry yesterday morning i was coming out of a garage and all of a sudden a driver looked at me and jumped in the yellow box (coming from a side road) even though i had right of way i had to slam on my brakes. Then last night my boyfriend and myself where going northbound on the M50 when a van next to us was dangerously jumping lanes the whole way.

Previous poster is correct about Lights people forget to turn off full beams and nearly blind you especially going around corners.

People overtake at bends and when they are to close to the cars on the other side of the road. Not indicating when on roundabouts and in the wrong lane and then coming in on top of you

A major worry i think is the foreign drivers ( Lithuanins,Lativans and Polish) driving around with no tax or insurance and of course no NCT if we are late with our tax by a few days we have to pay errears, they should be taking of them and giving back when they tax & insure them, Get them coming in of the boats at rosslare where they all come in from europe. Also how many of these where killed or killed people last month because they where drink driving
 
Limiting speed on cars is easy - A hire drive Mercedes that I had in Germany for example had a limiter implemented at 130mph. You got to that speed, wouldn't go any faster. BMW put speed limiters on some of their sportier models in certain markets. It would take very little for the government to implement a requirement for something similar on all cars being imported into Ireland.
I don't agree with limiting of speed on cars, but this is a simple and effect, and safer solution than screaching alarms.

Speed Cameras as cash generators - So what? It's your choice to break the speedlimit. If you don't break the speed limit, it won't matter to you whether or not speed cameras are making money from other drivers. You can just drive past them, under the limit, and smile to yourself at the stupidity of others who get caught.
I don't agree with the placing of speed traps and cameras in this country however. They're specifically placed in order to make money. If speed cameras were placed in known accident blackspots all over the country, I don't think anyone could have complaints if they were generating money - it would show the level of irresponsible driving in this country. At the moment, the level of points doesn't necessarily reflect irresponsible driving.

Bad roads being the cause of accidents - There are no accidents on bad roads when there are no cars on it. Therefore, it's bad driving on bad roads, or driving inappropriately on bad roads that causes accidents.
I agree that signposting, road markings and danger signs on many bad roads leaves a lot to be desired, but if in doubt, slow down, don't carry on regardless.
As mentioned before, I've done some analysis on road deaths. Most road deaths occur within a close radius to the victims homes. That means, in my opinion, the victims may very well believe that they know the roads well enough to plough on regardless and may then be surprised either by road conditions, other road users, or animals etc, and end up in an accident.
With regards to bad roads also, I will freely admit going faster on bad roads through the middle of the country because I know the chances of getting caught speeding are a whole lot less than on the M4 etc. And that's massively wrong.

Breath testing outside pubs - As for this being in contravention of civil liberties, I disagree. If a guard stands outside a pub at 11.30 and sees someone walking out of said pub, getting into their car, and starting to drive away, I do not believe that it is unreasonable for the guard to have a suspicion that the person may be breaking the law by driving under the influence. You can't tell me that in a country pub with 30 cars outside on a Wednesday night that there are 30 designated drivers inside.
I don't agree with this kind of check however, but I also disagree with being stopped as part of the Garda clampdown on gang warfare in west Dublin and having my car eyeball searched by mucker Gardai asking me where I'm going and where I've just been, but as part of the general good, some things have to be put up with.

All cars should have 3.0 litre engines... - I'm hoping this is a tongue in cheek comment. Otherwise, giving people an "out" for having bad judgement will only encourage further bad judgement.

To my mind, solutions are simple enough to the problem of road deaths. Firstly, and most importantly, as mentioned already, is personal responsibility. When you see some of the posts on the other thread here regarding dangerously overtaking slow drivers just because people have a long commute home, you can see how things begin to degenerate.

Secondly, I don't believe we need any new traffic laws. If we had proper enforcement of the laws that we have already, we'd be enormously better off.
 
LIVERLIPS said:
A major worry i think is the foreign drivers ( Lithuanins,Lativans and Polish) driving around with no tax or insurance and of course no NCT if we are late with our tax by a few days we have to pay errears, they should be taking of them and giving back when they tax & insure them, Get them coming in of the boats at rosslare where they all come in from europe. Also how many of these where killed or killed people last month because they where drink driving
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It was in the paper (Irish Times I think) where the Gardai, obviously recognising this problem, stated that they had no powers to confiscate or do anything to foreign cars driven by foreign nationals in this country when it came to tax and insurance.

And I'm guessing the paperwork involved when it comes to prosecuting such people for dangerous driving (which is very common amongst this group in my opinion) is so cumbersome that the Gardai just don't bother.
 
Different things work for different people - like the ads for instance. That's why they need a combination of things

- shock value and awareness
- education in schools
- road maintenance
- proper enforcement

- reduce and hopefully eliminate the number of people driving around who don't even have a license - it's truly frightening :eek: Look at other countries. In Germany this isn't allowed and the actual test is more rigorous - you learn night time driving and motorway driving etc.
 
It really should not be a difficult preposition to look at worldwide road death statistics, check where they are lowest, and find out what those countries are doing.

If we did this in health and education etc. we would have a very fine country indeed.

Alas our politicians insist on re-inventing the wheel, and are especially fond of short term fixes.
 
Compelling rural pubs to organize transport doesn't mean they should pay for it - but how many of them actually ENCOURAGE their patrons to sign up for a minibus or some such solution? And I don't see why publicans are so precious when it comes to any sort of change to drinking in this country. After all, tobacco companies are taxed to the hilt for their business, yet it's okay for pubs to get people blind drunk and close the door on all sorts of drunk-fuelled violance and disorder while they count their nights takings.

Also, internal alarms that go off in car that goes over the speed limit needn't be so dangerous as to cause an accident - they just have to be annoying. I believe in many latin american countries bus & truck drivers have to endure the drone of a buzzer when they speed. Not a ludicrous idea I don't think.

And for those of you who worry about infringements on your civil liberties - I think it would be better you save that ire for a REAL infringement on freedom.......
 
Chamar said:
And for those of you who worry about infringements on your civil liberties - I think it would be better you save that ire for a REAL infringement on freedom.......
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Is that a threat? ;) What sort of infringements have you in mind, Chamar?
 
shnaek said:
Is that a threat? ;) What sort of infringements have you in mind, Chamar?
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Well, I'd start with banning "Fair City" and work from there...:)
 
And for those of you who worry about infringements on your civil liberties - I think it would be better you save that ire for a REAL infringement on freedom.......
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'REAL' infringements start small, such as breath testing people coming our of pubs at a certain hour. When these become generally accepted, other maybe slightly more intrusive infringements occur. Before you know what's going on, you end up like a Jew in 1930's Germany.

A couple of quotes:
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

and:
"When the government fears the People, that is Liberty. When the People fear the Government, that is tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
 
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