Right to timely billing/payment?

[tiggyT]

Hi,

I bought flights about 4 or 5 months ago, using my brother's credit card, flew out the next day, everything was fine.

I was shocked to receive a letter about a week ago saying that the flights were never paid for - upon investigation of credit card statements it appears that this may be the case, for some reason the company only made a small charge at the time instead of the full amount. I am so freaked out.

Although my brother should have noticed that more money should have been taken from his account then, I am absolutely appalled and terrified at the idea that we are liable for the balance now, given that it is over 1500 euro. I thought this was all paid for and sorted, the whole thing happened so long ago.

There was no indication of any problem til I got the letter and now 4/5 months down the line they are looking for a huge sum of money that we simply haven't accounted for.

I don't have this money, my brother doesn't have this money, we are stressed to the maximum about it.

I haven't been in touch yet because I want to know where I stand - surely there is some consumer right that says you have to be billed in a timely manner, or that any problems with payment should be highlighted immediately?

I mean this has just come as such a shock, we are being hit with a huge sum. It can't be right that that is allowed, if they didn't take the full amount and we weren't aware of it surely they have some element of responsibility. It is just so alarming,

I don't know what to think. Please please help. Thank you.

 

[ClubMan]

I am absolutely appalled and terrified at the idea that we are liable for the balance now, given that it is over 1500 euro.

Why are you appalled to be asked to pay for a service which you used?!

There was no indication of any problem til I got the letter

What about the fact that the charge presumably never appeared on the CC statement?

Are you saying that €1.5K was the price of the original flights or that this includes the original price plus penalties or something like that?

The NCA at www.consumerconnect.ie can give you details of your statutory consumer rights. Seems odd that the flight costs were not charged in full at the time but if €1.5K was the price and it is outstanding then I don't necessarily see that you have any statutory right to avoid paying what is owed.

What company is involved?

 

[tiggyT]

PS - i don't know if this makes a difference, but on the confirmation email when I booked the flights it said:

* Booking is only guaranteed once full amount is charged *

If you read this and your booking has been guaranteed (e.g. you have used the booking by taking the flight) wouldn't you presume the whole amount had been charged?

I would really appreciate some help or advice asap, very worried about this whole thing, thank you.


the company is ebookers. i know it seems really stupid not to have realised that the full amount wasn't paid, but that is simply what happened. i am not appalled by having to pay for the service, i am just appalled that the facility was there for them to take the money on the due date, but they didn't do it, and i had no idea until now. i am appalled to be hit by this huge sum out of the blue when i thought it was all taken care of.

1.5k is the amount for the flights, not any additional penalties. I hope I don't sound like i'm trying to get something for nothing because i'm not, I've just been sidewindered by a massive lump sum that i thought had been dealt with and i'm just trying to fathom how there is no safeguard against this kind of incident. i mean this kind of stuff never happens to me, I am honest and fiscally responsible (i even give the change back if i am undercharged in a shop) if it was my own CC account i would have immediately spotted it and queried, but obviously my brother didn't cop on that only the booking fee had been charged. I just don't know what to do, don't they have any responsibility to alert the customer that there has been a discrepancy with regard to payment?

 

[mathepac]

1.5k is the amount for the flights, not any additional penalties. I hope I don't sound like i'm trying to get something for nothing because i'm not, I've just been sidewindered by a massive lump sum that i thought had been dealt with and i'm just trying to fathom how there is no safeguard against this kind of incident. i mean this kind of stuff never happens to me, I am honest and fiscally responsible (i even give the change back if i am undercharged in a shop) if it was my own CC account i would have immediately spotted it and queried, but obviously my brother didn't cop on that only the booking fee had been charged. I just don't know what to do, don't they have any responsibility to alert the customer that there has been a discrepancy with regard to payment?

Jeez, I dunno tiggyT, what caused you to think the bill for the flights had "had been dealt with"? Are you pals with the tooth fairy or Santa Claus?

"don't they have any responsibility to alert the customer that there has been a discrepancy with regard to payment?" They have - they charged the flight against the credit card. You also have a responsibility to pay for services you avail of, and you acknowledge you used the tickets.

So they presented their bill late giving you the use of their 1.5k free for 4/5 months, at no cost to you; great, thanks a heap ebookers, now I believe you need to pay your bill.

I have used this particular company's services before and will admit their billing isn't the most efficient in the world, but are you sure it isn't some snag with the credit card company's billing system that caused the delay?

 

[Bobbins]

Hi Tiggy,

Perhaps you should contact the company in question and negotiate a repayment schedule. Explain that you were under the impression that the flights had been paid for and 4 months on you are not in a position to pay this now in a lump sum.
I suppose had they double charged you, and you had not noticed for 4/5 months you would probably expect to be refunded regardless of the time passed.
One way or another, I suspect that you are going to have to stump up the cash sooner or later!

Good luck, I'm sure you'll get it sorted.

Bobbins.

 

[remey]

Tiggy, was your brother paying for the trip for you? Otherwise did you not notice that you hadnt paid him the €1.5k?

 

[Stifster]

As the company have 6 years from the date the service was provided within which to sue you for payment, 4-5 months is nothing.

This kind of thing happens all the time. It's your fault if you used the money for something else.

 

[polly2000]

Sorry to butt in on this but I have noticed Aer Lingus doing this too. We booked flight around March last year but it only went on the card just before we travelled in September.
Tha't's fine but just curious to know what would happen if you your CC card was out of date by the time the flight took place or your card had been stolen in between? What I'm saying is that I don't like the practice of paying for something and then months later it only then shows up and don't understand why they do this.
I think the original poster has to pay the money,no question about it but I think a strong worded letter to E Bookers wouldn't go amiss just to make the point.

 

[Sylvester3]

On a related note, I've had problems booking flights/holidays on a credit card that was due to expire around the time of the said event. I take it this is because they want to (or are legally obliged to) charge the card at that time?

 

[tiggyT]

Hi all,

Thanks very much for all the questions raised & advice given, its giving me a much clearer perspective on the matter.

"Jeez, I dunno tiggyT, what caused you to think the bill for the flights had "had been dealt with"? Are you pals with the tooth fairy or Santa Claus?

I thought the bill had been dealt with because I paid the full sum to my brother upfront, before even making the booking. In this circumstance, I know for a fact that there wasn't a problem with the credit card. (I had given my brother €2000 so that I could use the facility for the flights & other stuff, I have since looked at his statement and he lodged it to the CC account immediately so that he had a cash balance plus a credit facility of 1000 - the cash balance alone was more than enough to pay the full amount on the due date) So the facility was given for them to take full payment as agreed, when agreed. There was no reason for them not to and they never informed us that they didn't.

I am at pains to point out my full awareness of the principle of paying for a service when you use it, I am fully supportive of this and wholeheartedly compliant with it thus far. But yeah maybe I am unduly influenced by my pal the toothfairy - you harvest a tooth from your mouth and are guaranteed overnight payment from her. Bam, bam - a straight transaction concluded in a timely manner. That's how business should be conducted.

The facts are:
1] I bought a service, authorising payment from the credit card on the due date - I was willing to pay, I gave full facility to pay, they were supposed to take payment.
2] The company charged my brother's account for the service, but through an error on their part, they did not charge the full amount.
3] Neither my brother nor I realised that the full amount was not charged (he only noticed that a charge had been made, but not that the full amount had not been taken)
4] The next we heard about it was the letter almost 5 months later.

"don't they have any responsibility to alert the customer that there has been a discrepancy with regard to payment?" They have - they charged the flight against the credit card.

no the whole point is that they didn't charge for the flight. They gave no indication that there was any problem, or that they made any kind of mistake.


I know that my brother should have been more thorough in checking the statement (how the hell you don't notice an extra 1500 in your CC account i have no idea, its not like he's rich or anything, but he is not good with money at all- I dread to think that he somehow spent all that extra money unthinkingly, I haven't gone into it with him yet because I wanted to find out where we/he stands in terms of responsibility first.)


Yes, he is at fault for being an idiot. But if eBookers had just taken the money when they were supposed to, everything would be absolutely fine and we wouldn't be in this mess. So they are at fault too, he wouldn't have been in that position if it wasn't for their error, as they so blithely put it in their letter, "due to circumstances beyond our control".


Initially I was so shocked I kind of hoped that they would be the main ones responsible, since it was the knock-on effect of their error that caused the problem. But all your comments have given me a bit of a reality check; particularly given Stifster's comment, it looks like my brother will have to step up to the plate and accept some responsibility. I will probably follow Bobbins' advice and maybe try to negotiate a bit - I just think there should be some culpability on their part too, none of this is any skin off their nose but its causing us huge problems.


PS - in relation to Polly2000's / Sylvester3's observations, I booked the flights a day before I left, so there was no excuse there anyway! Thanks again for all your comments everyone.

 

[ClubMan]

I thought the bill had been dealt with because I paid the full sum to my brother upfront, before even making the booking.

So it's not your problem - it's your brother's?

3] Neither my brother nor I realised that the full amount was not charged (he only noticed that a charge had been made, but not that the full amount had not been taken)

Does he not check his CC statements? Did he not check the invoiced amount against the charged amount?

4] The next we heard about it was the letter almost 5 months later.

See Stifster's post above.

I know that my brother should have been more thorough in checking the statement (how the hell you don't notice an extra 1500 in your CC account i have no idea, its not like he's rich or anything, but he is not good with money at all- I dread to think that he somehow spent all that extra money unthinkingly, I haven't gone into it with him yet because I wanted to find out where we/he stands in terms of responsibility first.)

Yes, he is at fault for being an idiot.

This, in my opinion, is the real problem here.

it looks like my brother will have to step up to the plate and accept some responsibility.

Don't you mean all responsibility for the outstanding amount which you already paid him?

I will probably follow Bobbins' advice and maybe try to negotiate a bit - I just think there should be some culpability on their part too, none of this is any skin off their nose but its causing us huge problems.

It's not your responsibility at this stage. Let your brother sort it out.

 

[mathepac]

Its difficult to post meaningful responses when the full story only emerges late in the game.

Maybe the lesson here is to use your own credit card in future or the card of someone who displays better fiscal responsibility than your brother has in this particular case.

 

[sam h]

This can & does happen - it is a pain as people often budget month to month. The electronic CC's normally go throught no problem, the old manual system often took months to appear on the statement....so I think it's just that we have gotten used to the charge appearing quickly.

If your brother pays as standard by DD, the credit card may not have recognised that there was "cash" lodged....I tried to do this for a holiday and they said I'd onlt be able to access the "cash" via withdrawals and my statement balance would have to go through as DD....not sure if all CC's work this way.

However, the bill has to be paid and it certainly appears your brother is liable. I'd recommend you apply for your own credit card for such booking in the future

my pal the toothfairy - you harvest a tooth from your mouth and are guaranteed overnight payment from her. Bam, bam - a straight transaction concluded in a timely manner.

....the toothfairy has often worked on a 2 day turnaround due to technical issues...at least in our house!!

 

[tiggyT]

I know it's really my brother's debt rather than mine, but I feel responsible for getting him into this mess and so will have to share the burden. Plus, its my good name that risks being sullied (as far as the company is concerned I'm the one who owes them the money) and given the way this story has turned out, it would probably be wiser to arrange things myself rather than give him the responsibility. Sam h & mathepac are certainly right that I would have been infinitely better off using my own card (o lesson bitterly learnt), but I decided to switch banks in August and the timing was such that I was waiting for the new credit card to come through.

oh and sam h, haha you may be right about the tooth fairy - i can vouch for her services back in the day, when i got a prompt tooth collection & 20pence delivery every time, but its been ages since I had any teeth to swap! I guess maybe the system ain't what it used to be

 

[Ciaraella]

Tiggy T, i don't why you feel it's your responsibility to sort this out! i don't know anyone who wouldn't notice an extra €1500 sitting on their credit card! this isn't very responsible of your brother, if his card details had been stolen and huge amounts spent on it would he not have noticed???

 

[Stifster]

I know it's really my brother's debt rather than mine, but I feel responsible for getting him into this mess and so will have to share the burden. Plus, its my good name that risks being sullied (as far as the company is concerned I'm the one who owes them the money) and given the way this story has turned out, it would probably be wiser to arrange things myself rather than give him the responsibility.

So have they not actually put the charge through but written and asked you to pay? I wonder why they took that approach?