Revenue taking information from the Land Registry for LPT- data protection issues?

[Bronte]

then further down the application I found there was a stranger listed as one of the registered owners of my house .

Where and how did you see this?

 

[Bronte]

I don't get this at all Cashier as surely that's confidential information.

 

[oldnick]

Cashier finding some strange lady as co-owner of his property reminds me of one the Hangover movies. (And I'm ashamed to admit watching them).

You evidently don't remember that wild night,cashier?

 

[mandelbrot]

I don't get this at all Cashier as surely that's confidential information.

What is confidential information?

 

[mandelbrot]

What wild night are you on about Old Nick, I evidently can't remember, am I missing something here

I think Nick was likening your situation to that of a movie character who wakes up on the floor in a hotel suite in Las Vegas in his underpants, after a wild night out: there's a tiny baby in one room, a tiger in the bathroom, he's missing a front tooth, and has a wedding ring on his finger suggesting he got married during the night.

Obviously all of that confusion pales in comparison to a system with literally millions of pieces of data managing to erroneously link someone else's name to your house...

 

[Bronte]

What is confidential information?

That personal information, who owns what property, could be disclosed to another citizen. My dealing with revenue are confidential and I don't wish anything about me to be divulged unless it's allowed by law or I authorise it.

 

[T McGibney]

Originally Posted by mandelbrot http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1334102#post1334102
What is confidential information?

That personal information, who owns what property, could be disclosed to another citizen. My dealing with revenue are confidential and I don't wish anything about me to be divulged unless it's allowed by law or I authorise it.

Property ownership particulars are not confidential, and are easily accessible by any citizen. You can download such details for individual properties on landdirect.ie or from Land Registry offices.

 

[Bronte]

Property ownership particulars are not confidential, and are easily accessible by any citizen. You can download such details for individual properties on landdirect.ie or from Land Registry offices.

I appreciate that, but that's not the point. Dealings with revenue are confidential, what next, our tax returns can be seen ? It's about trust and confidence in a system.

 

[T McGibney]

But in this case, Revenue are merely importing property ownership data from a public domain source into their own confidential system. I don't see a confidentiality issue. If you do, perhaps you might explain how?

 

[Bronte]

, Revenue are merely importing property ownership data from a public domain source into their own confidential system.

In my own case I can see that the properties listed are coming from the NPPR website, I know by the way they are listed because my property was subdivided and does not have individual legal titles etc. NPPR is also revenue and private.

I certainly do not expect to see other people's names popping up and incorrectly at that as outlined by another poster.

Anyway you've actually said it yourself, revenue's own confidential system, nothing on their website, about another tax payer, however seeming innocuous, should be viewable by a third party.

 

[T McGibney]

Revenue have nothing to do with the NPPR.

If data is being imported from the NPPR website and divulged to third parties, then it is a matter for the Local Government Computer Services Board & local authorities. And also perhaps the Data Protection Commissioner.

If data is being imported from Land Registry records, there is no issue.

 

[Bronte]

Now that's interesting Tommy because for sure it's not coming from the Land Registry, it's coming from either the NPPR or the household charge. It's the only place where my subdivided property is listed that way. In actual fact the land registry would have the address slightly different (as they do things a different way).

About a year ago I had an issue with letters coming about the household charge and had to ring them up and also ring the local authority and from that I found out the Househhold charge got the addresses from the NPPR and now to me revenue have the data from the NPPR.

Is there a legal document that allows NPPR and Household charge to give that information to revenue. And what are the rules about what information Revenue are allowed to put up about private individuals.

All these computers and data sharing can be dangerous, that's all I'm pointing out.

You say NPPR has nothing to do with revenue, maybe so, but they are going to be chasing the household charge, wonder why not the NPPR. All very confusing.

 

[T McGibney]

Is there a legal document that allows NPPR and Household charge to give that information to revenue. And what are the rules about what information Revenue are allowed to put up about private individuals.

These are two vitally important questions, which beg for answers. I agree with your concerns on data sharing and privacy. Its unfortunate if State agencies are taking a cavalier approach to private data and the lack of clarity in this regard isn't exactly reassuring.

 

[Bronte]

I forgot something, there is another data base with my details, the PRTB.

Personally I don't mind the data sharing so much as it's in the interests of compliant tax payers, it's the risk of private data being released etc. One has to have rules and procedures and protection.

 

[murphaph]

I appreciate that, but that's not the point. Dealings with revenue are confidential, what next, our tax returns can be seen ? It's about trust and confidence in a system.

Funnily enough in Denmark they can be. You can check what your neighbour earns and how much tax he pays and so on...and he can check you. The system has been like that for a long time, designed to encourage honesty as everyone can check up on everyone else.

It's an "interesting" idea to say the least.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Hi,

Revenue's power to acquire information in connection with LPT are in Part 15 of the Finance (Local Property Tax) Act 2012. It can obtain information from a “relevant person”.

Section 153 lists Relevant Persons:-

.— In this Part “relevant person” means—
(a) the Local Government Management Agency,
(b) the Property Registration Authority,
(c) the Private Residential Tenancies Board,
(d) the holder of a licence under section 14(1) of the Electricity Regulation Act 1999 to supply electricity or to discharge the functions of the operator of the distribution system,
(e) the holder of a natural gas licence under section 16(1) of the Gas (Interim) Regulation Act 2002,
(f) An Post,
(g) the Valuation Office,
(h) Ordnance Survey Ireland,
(i) the Minister for Social Protection,
(j) the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine,
(k) the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government,
(l) the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources,
(m) the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport,
(n) a local authority,
(o) the Health Service Executive,
(p) the National Asset Management Agency, or
(q) the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland.

 

[Bronte]

That's a very comprehsive list of data sharing, but it doesn't answer whether revenue has the authority to divulge that information to others on it's website.

 

[mandelbrot]

That's a very comprehsive list of data sharing, but it doesn't answer whether revenue has the authority to divulge that information to others on it's website.

Maybe I'm being a bit thick, but what are they sharing, and with whom?

I have done a few LPT returns but not encountered any instances of properties with multiple owners what information is displayed about each owner to the other(s) viewing the record?