Revenue before the Oireachtas Finance Commitee

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/live-flashplayer/committeeroom3/

This years was paid by
Direct Debit: 10%
Deduction at source: 1%
Single Debit Authority: 24%
Credit Cards:15%
Debit card: 36%
Cheques 6%
Other 7%

We assumed that people still had the booklet, so we pared the letter back to its basics. This was a mistaken assumption on our part.

By law, tax is payable on or before the 1 January

Payments are exactly the same as they did earlier this year. They had no problem earlier this year.

The issues arising this time, didn't arise last time.

One exception - a reasonably small number didn't realise that the DD would hit immediately. We set up a pop-up this time for CC and DC payments.

205,000 have filed their returns. Combine that with the roll over of phased payment, means that 35% have complied already.

1.6 m owners own 1.9m properties

60% pay by DC or CC i.e. 1m people

I would equate Debit card with SDA ( Strange The debit card hits now, the SDA in March)
 
Michael McGrath: Could you have a two part process i.e. register now and pay on 1 January

Revenue: not really.

We have to do it now, if we want to get the phased payers set up by January.

Half of the 205,000 returns so far are SDA. ( 5% credit card; 15% Debit cards)
 
We can take in cheques separately from the return, but it is risky. Last time we got cheques with no identification.

It's a risk to separate the payment from the filing

Everyone should have received a letter by now. They should contact us by phone if they have not received it.

The waiting time on 1890 at lunctime today was 6 minutes. We phone people back in the evening if they leave a message.

People overseas were able to pay it last year, but not now. It will be fixed by Monday.
 
Joe Higgins (reproduced here for entertainment purposes only)

speculating bondholders and bankers are having their debts laid at the feet of Irish working people

You are here today to provide an alibi for the parties in government

to distract their attention from this hated tax

Listening to ministers this week I wondered where this tax came from

a crude weapon of austerity was loaded with draconian powers to frighten taxpayers

when Revenue pull the trigger, the politicians scream blue murder

I expect that the people digging up our footpaths will be hauled in here by TDs asking them to explain themselves for installing the water meters.

Revenue should be conscious of the distress and fear that government policy is causing

When you heard the Tanaiste and government TDs screaming objections to the letter = did you say to yourself "How pathetic - who do they think that they are fooling?"

No, I did not think that.
 
Josephine Feehily: It's a bit odd that people won't give us a Single Debit Authority because they don't want to give us their bank details, but they will pay by cheque where the bank account number is on the bottom of the cheque
 
Josephine Feehily: If people tick the box to say "service provider" and pay it in the first few days of the new year, they will be fine.


Thomas Byrne : I want to compliment the Revenue on doing a good job - we should not be blaming them for a tax we introduced
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Josephine Feehily: If people tick the box to say "service provider" and pay it in the first few days of the new year, they will be fine.
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I've listened to a bit (not all) of this.

She has said repeatedly that – I paraphrase – they need to either get the tax now or “secure” it (i.e. have a direct debit or salary deduction mandate). So which category does “I’ll pay by service provider” fall into: it’s neither paid, nor secured in any sense.

What is the difference between “I’ll pay by service provider, when it is due” and “I’ll pay online by debit/credit card, when it is due”? Why are they putting up such resistance to moving from an illogical and inconsistent (and inconvenient) position? Why is this such a big deal? I’m baffled.
 
RainyDay said:
Seems like a tiny number - I'd have expected that the vast majority of PAYE employees would have opted for this method, as the least painful option.
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Hi RainyDay

I was astonished too, so I might have picked it up incorrectly.

But look at the 36% paying by Debit Card vs. 24% for Single Debit Authority. I just can't get over that at all.

And only 10% paid by their preferred method - Direct Debit.

In fact, in this cash starved country only 18% paid by phased payment - if we assume that all of the other was some form of phased payment.
 
ang1170 said:
I've listened to a bit (not all) of this.

She has said repeatedly that – I paraphrase – they need to either get the tax now or “secure” it (i.e. have a direct debit or salary deduction mandate). So which category does “I’ll pay by service provider” fall into: it’s neither paid, nor secured in any sense.

What is the difference between “I’ll pay by service provider, when it is due” and “I’ll pay online by debit/credit card, when it is due”? Why are they putting up such resistance to moving from an illogical and inconsistent (and inconvenient) position? Why is this such a big deal? I’m baffled.
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- Excellent post!
 
ang1170 said:
What is the difference between “I’ll pay by service provider, when it is due” and “I’ll pay online by debit/credit card, when it is due”? Why are they putting up such resistance to moving from an illogical and inconsistent (and inconvenient) position? Why is this such a big deal? I’m baffled.
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The Revenue does not want to encourage these payment service providers as people will make a mess of their payments. But they have to because some people love queuing in post offices and chatting to the postmaster and there is an uproar if Revenue prevents people from using these old fashioned payment methods.

They don't have to accept commitments from people to pay at some stage in the future with a debit card. They can pay now with a Single Debit Authority or spread it out with a direct debit.

I am baffled why payers don't see this.
 
Could they not have employed the old Standing Order method of payment? Simple to fill in a form allowing the Revenue to debit your account a fixed amount on a specific date, or next working day if that falls on the weekend or bank holiday?

I can understand the Revenue's reluctance to hold on to cheques and electronic payment card details: cheques can be cancelled/bounced; bank accounts can be closed by the time the cheque is presented in 2 months time, blocked to debit transactions if an account holder is deceased. Do the revenue really want the hassle of chasing people/estates for money? Same thing with credit and debit cards, they can be declined if presented after the date payment is due. The issue with my card number being in a processing centre on a report for an extended period of time was something I personally was not comfortable with either. I'm not agreeing with the revenue's stance and their justifications given, but they seem to be bound by the wording of the legislation and are strictly adhering to that.

Surprises by the low take up of payment at source, esp by public servants. I am one of the 1%, and I only knew about this when looking closely at my payslip, which had this LPT field for deductions. My hunch was that this was for the Local Property Tax, but when I rang up the dept. of ed. the person I spoke to did not know what it was, and had to ring me back! It will come off my pay the same as my union subs and pension deductions, so I toojk it as the least painful way to pay....
 
Brendan Burgess said:
They don't have to accept commitments from people to pay at some stage in the future with a debit card. They can pay now with a Single Debit Authority or spread it out with a direct debit.

I am baffled why payers don't see this.
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree, so. A direct debit authority is not the same as using a debit card. When I use a debit card, I know (or can readily find out) what funds are there. I have no idea what my bank balance will be next March. Because I want to maintain control over exactly when I make the payment, I am being asked to either pay two months early, or pay a fee to a "service provider".

As I said, their position is illogical, inconsistent and inconvenient, and it's beyond me why they won't either accept this, or make any effort to change it. That, together with the complete mess they made of the letter they sent is why people are so exercised about this.
 
Joe90 said:
Could they not have employed the old Standing Order method of payment? Simple to fill in a form allowing the Revenue to debit your account a fixed amount on a specific date, or next working day if that falls on the weekend or bank holiday?
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A standing order is an instruction from you to your bank to push the money out to Revenue.

A Direct Debit is an instruction from Revenue to pull the money from your account.

You are describing a Direct Debit which is what the Revenue would like us all to use.
 
ang1170 said:
When I use a debit card, I know (or can readily find out) what funds are there. I have no idea what my bank balance will be next March.

Because I want to maintain control over exactly when I make the payment, ...
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I must be missing something, I think your position is just as illogical, inconsistent and inconvenient as the Revenue's.

You are being told very simply - pay by Debit Card any time up to the end of November or by SDA on 21 March.

What other providers give you that flexibility? Your life insurance premium, your car tax, all become due on a specific date. I suppose if you want, you can pay them as soon as you get the bill.

I suppose they could say this if it would make it easier for the people who manage their money in, what strikes me, as a funny sort of way.

1) If you want to pay in 12 equal instalments, you must fill in the instructions by 28th November. If you miss the 28th November deadline, then you must pay all at once.

2) If you want to pay in one go, you can fill in the instructions and pay it any time up to 21 March

the complete mess they made of the letter they sent
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Completely agree with you.
 
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