Restaurant Voucher Issue

At Christmas I received a voucher for a local, though nationally reknowned, restaurant. It was a restaurant that myself and my husband and friends had frequented regularly over the years. However when I went to use the voucher in March this year, the restaurant had closed and was being sold. I managed to track down the chef and asked him what the situation was and although he was not a business owner, he said it was his understanding that the voucher would be honoured by the new owners, local restaurateurs who have at least 2 other restaurants in the area.

Anyway, the restaurant re-opened under new ownership at the weekend and so I rang today to enquire of the situation only to be told that the new owners had not received any money for the vouchers issued and so would not be honouring it. They said they had no immediate contact details for the previous owners.

I do know however that one of the previous owners is a local businessman acting as CEO in at least 1 company. Probably not someone who is going to bat and eyelid towards helping out with this, but perhaps I am being judgemental.

My query is, what right have I in this case to some sort of re-dress ? Is the voucher legal tender ? It has no expiry date. I rang the Consumers Association, but maybe because it was 5.00 on a Friday they weren't too helpful, just suggested straight away Small Claims Court.

So can anyone tell me, what rights are there in this instance ?

Many thanks,
-R

Consumer rights in relation to vouchers are pretty weak as far as I know. Check the ConsumerConnect website for info.

Just go in and order a meal. When the bill arrives plonk the gift voucher on the plate with the balance made up in cash and wait to see what happens.
Tell them to send you out the bill. Refuse point blank to pay for the value of the voucher.

What's the worst they can do? Sue you. No chance. How would it look in court if they tried to claim that you hadn't paid the bill. The meal was paid for in advance. They may ban you from the restaurant, but would you have gone back there anyway after they tried to cheat you out of something that was already paid for by you (indirectly).

As far as I'm aware when a business changes hands the debts associated with it also transfer. If the new owners didn't take ownership of the debts then make it their problem, not yours.


Murt

Murt10 said:

What's the worst they can do? Sue you.

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Call the Gardai perhaps?

As far as I'm aware when a business changes hands the debts associated with it also transfer. If the new owners didn't take ownership of the debts then make it their problem, not yours.

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Don't think that this extends to vouchers. Might be some relevant reading among .

ClubMan said:

Call the Gardai perhaps?


Don't think that this extends to vouchers. Might be some relevant reading among .

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Gardai won't entertain them. Its a civil matter. You havn't stolen anything. You are not doing a runner. You are trying to pay and they are refusing to accept payment. They are tyring to steal money from you.

In another post (from the search results I don't know how to link to it) Clubman said:

"The ODCA website is too slow at the moment so all I can find is this (my underlining):

Quote:
Gift vouchers
Gift vouchers often have a specific lifetime, so if it is not marked on the back of a voucher you have to ask the store how long it is valid for. Be careful not to leave it in a drawer and forget about it because there is no legal obligation on the store to redeem it once it has gone out of date. Vouchers may represent money, but they also represent a contract with the shop to spend it within a certain amount of time. A chain store voucher from (for example) Belfast can only be redeemed in Dublin at the discretion of the shop - usually this is stated on the voucher. "


My reading of this is that as there is no legal obligaton to redeem the voucher once it has gone out of date there must be a legal obligation to redeem it if it is presented before its expiry date.

And I forgot to mention that you should not put a tip on the plate when you are paying for the meal. (This is akin to tipping a taxi driver and then complaining to everyone afterwards that you felt the taxi fare was too high in the first place. If you felt that the taxi fare represented good value for money, then by all means, tip the driver. Guess how much money I give to taxi drivers whenever I get a taxi, which is very infrequently.)

In the restaurant, leave the tip behind you on the table, only if the matter of the voucher is sorted out completely to your satisfaction.

Actually, the best solution would probably to write to them and ask if they will accept the voucher. If they won't go, to the small claims court.


Murt

Murt10 said:

As far as I'm aware when a business changes hands the debts associated with it also transfer. If the new owners didn't take ownership of the debts then make it their problem, not yours.


Murt

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Thats interesting. When I rang the restaurant I may have been speaking to the supervisor, although he went and rang someone for clarification. His attitude was that they bought the building not the previous business which is a bit of a lie as the unit was sold as a restaurant, not a premises, according to the estate agents website.

The Consumers Association were cagey saying that if they changed the name of the premises then it would be difficult to get them to honour the voucher. I was really disappointed with the attitude given that we are saying that money changed hands here and someone put cash for free it seems into anothers back pocket. Its the principle more than the sum involved that annoys me. And really if there are even 30 such vouchers around, well thats €3000 for nothing just donated.

I'll check out the links to the CA website again and see if I can come up with something concrete. Perhaps you are right in saying that I shouldn't be so quick to accept the new owners get out clause and will follow up with a letter to the person who owns it. But honestly my faith in local small business is low, captive market, successful at what they do at this level and just wonder will I end up with a name and still no satisfaction ! Am I way too cynical !?

Thanks again,
-R

If the new operation is a brand new entity, then there is no legal requirement to honout your voucher.You are a creditor of the now defunct company - if one existed. It would be very unusual to take on the debts, as there is generally no need to do this.The new owners might honour it as a gesture though..

Murt10 said:

Gardai won't entertain them. Its a civil matter. You havn't stolen anything. You are not doing a runner. You are trying to pay and they are refusing to accept payment. They are tyring to steal money from you.

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But the voucher is from another business that just used to in the same place.... if there was an argos there before the restaurant could you try and pay in argos vouchers ?

Murt10 said:

In another post (from the search results I don't know how to link to it) Clubman said:

"The ODCA website is too slow at the moment so all I can find is this (my underlining):

Quote:
Gift vouchers
Gift vouchers often have a specific lifetime, so if it is not marked on the back of a voucher you have to ask the store how long it is valid for. Be careful not to leave it in a drawer and forget about it because there is no legal obligation on the store to redeem it once it has gone out of date. Vouchers may represent money, but they also represent a contract with the shop to spend it within a certain amount of time. A chain store voucher from (for example) Belfast can only be redeemed in Dublin at the discretion of the shop - usually this is stated on the voucher. "


My reading of this is that as there is no legal obligaton to redeem the voucher once it has gone out of date there must be a legal obligation to redeem it if it is presented before its expiry date.

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Yes , but thats from the old business, not the new one...


If someone turned up at your house saying an old owner owed them money , would you pay ?

Murt10 said:

And I forgot to mention that you should not put a tip on the plate when you are paying for the meal. (This is akin to tipping a taxi driver and then complaining to everyone afterwards that you felt the taxi fare was too high in the first place. If you felt that the taxi fare represented good value for money, then by all means, tip the driver. Guess how much money I give to taxi drivers whenever I get a taxi, which is very infrequently.)

In the restaurant, leave the tip behind you on the table, only if the matter of the voucher is sorted out completely to your satisfaction.

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Not tipping will only hurt the waiter/waitress... tip if you had a good meal and good service , don't take out your argument with the owner on the waiter...

Murt10 said:

Actually, the best solution would probably to write to them and ask if they will accept the voucher. If they won't go, to the small claims court.

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Thats probably the best course of action if the old owners don't pay up and the company has not been desovled....

jhegarty said:

But the voucher is from another business that just used to in the same place.... if there was an argos there before the restaurant could you try and pay in argos vouchers ?




Yes , but thats from the old business, not the new one...


If someone turned up at your house saying an old owner owed them money , would you pay ?



Not tipping will only hurt the waiter/waitress... tip if you had a good meal and good service , don't take out your argument with the owner on the waiter...





Thats probably the best course of action if the old owners don't pay up and the company has not been desovled....

Click to expand...

Comparing buying a trading business to buying a house is like comparing apples with oranges. They are completely different. One is bought with the sole purpose of living in it, the other is bought as a going concern, to carry out a business and all things associated with it debtors, creditors, accounts, vouchers, advertising, profit and loss etc.

As you have raised the matter, I did have my solicitor carry out a search to see if there was any charges outstanding on my house before I bought it.

By the same token, when you are buying a business the first thing you do is get your accountant to look over the books and make sure that there are no debts that you are unaware of, that's what you are paying him for.

As it happened, there was judgement against my house and this debt had to be cleared before the sale could proceed. The building society had split my loan into two cheques, one to cover the debt and the other to give to the vendors. The judgement was knocking up interest on daily rate at a frightening rate and this was back in times when the standard mortgage interest rate was 15%. If I ever get a judgement on someone elses property, I'll be quite happy to leave it accruing massive interest, and likewise, if anyone ever gets a judgement against my property, I'll do everything I can to discharge that debt as soon as I can.

As for the staff in the restaurant, if I'm unhappy, everybody associated with the restaurant should be miserable too, and I'm damned if I'm going to spread a little cheer their way.



Murt