Repairs needed, management company refusing to do them

[ImARebel]

We have an issue with our management company where our apartment has water ingress issues to the point that it leaks into the electrical junction box and trips out the electricity. We have a bedroom with mould growing up the bed frame from an external leak and dampness in all the rooms from incorrectly fitted windows. This is a widespread issue in all apartments and because of this the management company is refusing to fix our apartment. They said there will be no ad-hoc repairs done to individual apartments

They are then saying they acknowledge that works need to be carried out but due to the non payment of service charges by others the money isn't there to fund any repairs. They will either repair all the apartments or none of them

I have fully paid my management fees, I've never been in arrears and therefore I would expect at the very least my apartment to get fixed. Am I unreasonable in this expectation?

They are talking about trying to access a government redress scheme which could take years but in the meantime we're living with damp and wet carpets, mould growing up our walls, a sizzling junction box every time it rains. We've also been told we aren't allowed carry out any external repairs ourselves.

Surely there is some arguement that I can make to force them to fix my apartment? I've paid my service charge, I've done everything asked of me. But they aren't doing anything

If I need to go the route of a solicitor is there a type of solicitor I should use? I can't really afford one but it's begining to look like it might be the only option. I don't seem to have a leg to stand on

I'd appreciate any advice as the thought of facing into another winter has me utterly depressed

 

[jpd]

Get yourself elected to the board of the management company and then work on getting repairs done

Doing ad-hoc repairs to one apartment will not cure your problem as the water will just seep in from your neighbours

 

[Bronte]

Yes you are unreasonable because you don’t understand that just because you have paid your management fees it means your repairs should be completed

Also it’s highly unlikely what you’ve paid will pay for even your own repairs. Because that money probably goes to paying for general maintenance and bins.

You need to understand you can be part of the management company, which is generally made up of flat owners.

There is a fundamental problem in many complexes over

A) non payments
B) badly built complexes
C) frustrated members of complex’s not understanding it requires everyone to pay the fees
D) blaming management companies for the problems, not of their making, and with not enough money
E) highly unlikely even if everyone had paid there would be enough for this level of bad building

You do have my sympathies as it’s a right mess. So here are your solutions

Sell
Live with it
Become part of management company
Do your own repairs
Rent, and you go rent elsewhere

My vote is on sell. Because I’d say this will take years, and it’s not worth it.

 

[The Horseman]

We have an issue with our management company where our apartment has water ingress issues to the point that it leaks into the electrical junction box and trips out the electricity. We have a bedroom with mould growing up the bed frame from an external leak and dampness in all the rooms from incorrectly fitted windows. This is a widespread issue in all apartments and because of this the management company is refusing to fix our apartment. They said there will be no ad-hoc repairs done to individual apartments

They are then saying they acknowledge that works need to be carried out but due to the non payment of service charges by others the money isn't there to fund any repairs. They will either repair all the apartments or none of them

I have fully paid my management fees, I've never been in arrears and therefore I would expect at the very least my apartment to get fixed. Am I unreasonable in this expectation?

They are talking about trying to access a government redress scheme which could take years but in the meantime we're living with damp and wet carpets, mould growing up our walls, a sizzling junction box every time it rains. We've also been told we aren't allowed carry out any external repairs ourselves.

Surely there is some arguement that I can make to force them to fix my apartment? I've paid my service charge, I've done everything asked of me. But they aren't doing anything

If I need to go the route of a solicitor is there a type of solicitor I should use? I can't really afford one but it's begining to look like it might be the only option. I don't seem to have a leg to stand on

I'd appreciate any advice as the thought of facing into another winter has me utterly depressed

I am trying to assist someone in a similar situation. Under the Multi Unit Development act section 13 (I think) the management company have a legal responsibility to rectify issues with the structure.

Before initiating legal proceedings remind the management company of their legal responsibility and if that does not work lodge a complaint with the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement for breach of directors responsibility.

This is the approach I will be taking.

 

[Bronte]

Get yourself elected to the board of the management company and then work on getting repairs done

Doing ad-hoc repairs to one apartment will not cure your problem as the water will just seep in from your neighbours

This one sounds particularly horrendous. Another Celtic tiger made with washing up liquid as mortar job. And x&#5* as regards what I will say about government regulation and oversight for building works. Same as regards consumer protections or legal protections.

 

[Bronte]

I am trying to assist someone in a similar situation. Under the Multi Unit Development act section 13 (I think) the management company have a legal responsibility to rectify issues with the structure.

Before initiating legal proceedings remind the management company of their legal responsibility and if that does not work lodge a complaint with the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement for breach of directors responsibility.

This is the approach I will be taking.

How far on this route are you? Does the MC actually have the money? How long will the legal route take? How much will that cost? If you get a legal order and the MC has not got the money what happens then? So far how long has there been an issue.

 

[The Horseman]

How far on this route are you? Does the MC actually have the money? How long will the legal route take? How much will that cost? If you get a legal order and the MC has not got the money what happens then? So far how long has there been an issue.

I have not commenced this yet. The management company will have to find the funds even if this requires securing finance via a commercial loan.

You will tend to find when a director is held personally liable they take the situation more seriously. They can't hide behind the veil of incorporation and the ODCE tends to focus their attention. Failure to discharge your directorship responsibilities can impact on other directorships and you will tend to find the companies who actually provide the day to day management of the apartment complex hold directorships of a number of management companies as part of the commercial business.

 

[mathepac]

I am thoroughly sick of the rants and threats by owners who do not understand how MUDs/OMCs operate.

All apartment owners in a MUD are members of the OMC, or the owner management company. As a member of the OMC, you cannot sue the management company (unless you're confusing the OMC with the managing agent) because that would mean taking legal action against yourself!

Not all (in fact very few) of the members of the OMC are directors. Directors are elected/nominated at the AGM.

You personally, as a member of the OMC, director or not, cannot insist that your property gets repaired ahead of or instead of others'.

Did we not do Key Post(s) about this kind of confusion before? It seems that I, who does not live in or own a MUD, and, who is not a member of an OMC, and who does not employ a managing agent, knows more about these matters than those who need to. Expliquez moi Kermie, s'il vous plait.

Through the chair, I'd like to make a suggestion. Any more of this repeated time-wasting, pure laziness, and resultant ignorance on related matters, will lead to the withdrawal of posting privileges from the poster until he/she passes the AAM MUD/OMC test exam and can recite verbatim the minutes of the last AGM.

Show of hands, please. Let the minutes show …..

 

[Bronte]

I am thoroughly sick of the rants and threats by owners who do not understand how MUDs/OMCs operate.

All apartment owners in a MUD are members of the OMC, or the owner management company. As a member of the OMC, you cannot sue the management company (unless you're confusing the OMC with the managing agent) because that would mean taking legal action against yourself!

Not all (in fact very few) of the members of the OMC are directors. Directors are elected/nominated at the AGM.

You personally, as a member of the OMC, director or not, cannot insist that your property gets repaired ahead of or instead of others'.

Did we not do Key Post(s) about this kind of confusion before? It seems that I, who does not live in or own a MUD, and, who is not a member of an OMC, and who does not employ a managing agent, knows more about these matters than those who need to. Expliquez moi Kermie, s'il vous plait.

Through the chair, I'd like to make a suggestion. Any more of this repeated time-wasting, pure laziness, and resultant ignorance on related matters, will lead to the withdrawal of posting privileges from the poster until he/she passes the AAM MUD/OMC test exam and can recite verbatim the minutes of the last AGM.

Show of hands, please. Let the minutes show …..

That’s my understanding too, you’re suing yourself, in an entity with no money. 20+ years ago my boss, an expert, warned me never to buy in such types of complexes in Ireland due to the disaster of the communal areas, management structure etc.

I think your latter suggestion defeats the purpose of a help board like AAM, it’s to get people to understand.

 

[Blackrock1]

I have not commenced this yet. The management company will have to find the funds even if this requires securing finance via a commercial loan.

You will tend to find when a director is held personally liable they take the situation more seriously. They can't hide behind the veil of incorporation and the ODCE tends to focus their attention. Failure to discharge your directorship responsibilities can impact on other directorships and you will tend to find the companies who actually provide the day to day management of the apartment complex hold directorships of a number of management companies as part of the commercial business.

Don't bother you are wasting your time see post below yours

 

[The Horseman]

I am thoroughly sick of the rants and threats by owners who do not understand how MUDs/OMCs operate.

All apartment owners in a MUD are members of the OMC, or the owner management company. As a member of the OMC, you cannot sue the management company (unless you're confusing the OMC with the managing agent) because that would mean taking legal action against yourself!

Not all (in fact very few) of the members of the OMC are directors. Directors are elected/nominated at the AGM.

You personally, as a member of the OMC, director or not, cannot insist that your property gets repaired ahead of or instead of others'.

Did we not do Key Post(s) about this kind of confusion before? It seems that I, who does not live in or own a MUD, and, who is not a member of an OMC, and who does not employ a managing agent, knows more about these matters than those who need to. Expliquez moi Kermie, s'il vous plait.

Through the chair, I'd like to make a suggestion. Any more of this repeated time-wasting, pure laziness, and resultant ignorance on related matters, will lead to the withdrawal of posting privileges from the poster until he/she passes the AAM MUD/OMC test exam and can recite verbatim the minutes of the last AGM.

Show of hands, please. Let the minutes show …..

The Owners Management Company is a legal entity that all members are of same (in the same way a shareholder owns any other company). You can sue the legal entity that is the Owners Management Company as it is a legal person. The members may have to fund the loss of a legal case but that does not deny you the right to sue.

The Owners Management Company have employed a Management agent to provide the day to day maintenance of the apartment complex.

A member cannot sue or take action against a Management agent as they have no direct relationship/contract with the management agent. It is up to the legal entity that is the Owners Management Company to take action against the Management Agent for breach of contract etc. Members can request that the Owners Management Company initiate the relevant steps up to and including legal action if the matter is not addressed satisfactorily.

The payment of management fees is the charge levied by the Owners Management Company on the members to provide the management of the complex.

 

[The Horseman]

Don't bother you are wasting your time see post below yours

I had abrief discussion with a solicitor colleague who advised you can sue. How successful it may be is a different story in so far as you may win but not get anything but the option is there.

It would appear under the heading Dispute resolution heafing on the below link suggests Courts can rule on these matters

Management companies for apartment blocks

An owners' management company must be set up before the developer of an apartment block sells any units.

www.citizensinformation.ie

 

[mathepac]

I think your latter suggestion defeats the purpose of a help board like AAM, it’s to get people to understand.

No, constantly posting the same answers to the same questions in different threads multiple times defeats the purpose of AAM, allowing posters to ignore key posts and dodge search facilities.

Some posters seem to believe (they avoid the pain and hassle of thinking) that their circumstances are unique (NOTE: not very unique, just "unique" please as unique is an absolute) and thus demand special attention. This is seldom the case, browsing the threads and posts.

Having contributed a key post or two in my time, and seeing questions on topics a key post answers, I sometimes ask "Have you consulted the key post on this topic?" A simple, helpful question like this is often met with "Ho'dja do dat?" or "Was dat?" response.

 

[mathepac]

The Owners Management Company is a legal entity that all members are of same (in the same way a shareholder owns any other company). You can sue the legal entity that is the Owners Management Company as it is a legal person. The members may have to fund the loss of a legal case but that does not deny you the right to sue.

I don't understand your statement but if you're saying that a member in good standing of an OMC is the same as a shareholder in a private or public commercial company, then you are incorrect.

 

[The Horseman]

I don't understand your statement but if you're saying that a member in good standing of an OMC is the same as a shareholder in a private or public commercial company, then you are incorrect.

How so? Both "own" the company

 

[L_earner]

We have an issue with our management company where our apartment has water ingress issues to the point that it leaks into the electrical junction box and trips out the electricity. We have a bedroom with mould growing up the bed frame from an external leak and dampness in all the rooms from incorrectly fitted windows. This is a widespread issue in all apartments and because of this the management company is refusing to fix our apartment. They said there will be no ad-hoc repairs done to individual apartments

They are then saying they acknowledge that works need to be carried out but due to the non payment of service charges by others the money isn't there to fund any repairs. They will either repair all the apartments or none of them

I have fully paid my management fees, I've never been in arrears and therefore I would expect at the very least my apartment to get fixed. Am I unreasonable in this expectation?

They are talking about trying to access a government redress scheme which could take years but in the meantime we're living with damp and wet carpets, mould growing up our walls, a sizzling junction box every time it rains. We've also been told we aren't allowed carry out any external repairs ourselves.

Surely there is some arguement that I can make to force them to fix my apartment? I've paid my service charge, I've done everything asked of me. But they aren't doing anything

If I need to go the route of a solicitor is there a type of solicitor I should use? I can't really afford one but it's begining to look like it might be the only option. I don't seem to have a leg to stand on

I'd appreciate any advice as the thought of facing into another winter has me utterly depressed

This is a horrible situation and I have a lot of sympathy for you. Here is my two cents’ worth.
1. So far, I don’t see any mention of the sinking fund. This is a stash of money that every apartment owner has to contribute towards every year. It is separate to the annual management fee and has to be held in a separate bank account. As a member of the company you are entitled to know how healthy this fund is. The most recent annual financial report will tell you. This is the fund that will be used to address faults like the ones you describe, not the annual management fee.
2. Annual contributions by owners to the sinking fund is a legal requirement, as is payment of the annual management fee. How much carrot, and how much stick has the board of directors used in addressing this? Individual owners enter a binding legal agreement to make these annual payments. When they are in default there needs to be leadership shown, in fairness to everyone.
3. The remediation scheme for apartments is coming, but apartment management companies may spend the money now and recover it later under the scheme. However it would have to be the case that the remediation works were necessary because the construction standards at the time of construction were not observed. Gathering the evidence to prove this might be costly but is a drop in the ocean compared to the loss of value to you and your fellow owners. A good engineer is needed to make an authoritative statement on it.

So, there is a long road ahead. If it were me in your shoes I would talk with your management company board of directors who are probably busy people just like you, and suggest that the way forward starts with every owner pulling together because it is only through being united that you will resolve this.

Or, you could accept the loss of value and just sell.

Best of luck either way.