Renting by the room


Read this question on another forum recently. It's a rented house where people come and go regularly. The original tenants are all long gone and the licensees now living there never signed a lease and do not want to become tenants. The landlord was unaware that the original tenants had moved out as they gave no notice, they just found licensees who paid deposits and then they left. Now there are four licensees in the house. If the licensees don't want to become tenants, is the landlord legally obliged to force them to sign a lease or else give them notice?
 
You have to wonder sometimes.

Clearly property owner wasn't paying a blind bit of attention.

Does property owner want them as tenants?
 
bipped said:
If the licensees don't want to become tenants, is the landlord legally obliged to force them to sign a lease or else give them notice?
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That's a messy situation that likely requires specialist legal advice now, but i In general a landlord is not obliged to provide a lease to licensees. The legislation allows for licensees to request to become tenants but doesn't oblige the landlord to accede to that request. The licensees might become entitled to Part 4 tenancy, particularly where the landlord is not retaining a room or other area within the property for their own use and regularly exercising their right to enter. But if licensees sublet or transfer the letting to others without the landlord's permission, can those others later become entitled to Part 4 protection?
 
Hi
May I ask opinions please....
I have ended tenancy on the grounds I am selling. Tennant last day today. God knows if she will leave as I have been unable ro contact them.
Anyway....question is. Am I allowed to rent a room out while selling. Friend homeless and looking for a short time rental. It would suit me to have someone around keeping an eye on place also.
I'm not sure on finer details of law.
Thank you.
 
DannyBoyD said:
You have to wonder sometimes.

Clearly property owner wasn't paying a blind bit of attention.

Does property owner want them as tenants?
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I can see how the owner might not know.
If could happen if a tenant left and a licensee moved in, and the other tenant/s failed to notify the owner. If that happened a few times, eventually all tenants would be gone, but if the rent was paid in full and on time, the owner wouldn't know of a problem. It might only become apparent during an inspection and maybe not even then if occupants were not around during the inspection, or it was done by an EA employee who didn't personally know the occupants.
If licensees don't want to become tenants, how can the landlord register with rtb as there is no tenancy? Would he have to evict them?
 

I thought licensees only gain part4 rights when they request / want to become a tenant. Same on the death of a tenant, a family member can elect to become the tenant and continue the tenancy but iirc, it's not automatic. If no request is made, presumably the tenancy ends.

Just trying to tease this out but I can't find anything on the rtb website about circumstances where those occupants do not want to sign a tenancy agreement and the landlord is happy with the situation as it is.

Is a landlord legally obliged to insist on a new tenancy? Does the subject of a tenancy mean that a lease agreement is compulsory on both parties:
3.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), this Act applies to every dwelling, the subject of a tenancy (including a tenancy created before the passing of this Act).
 
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If they started as licensees, but the original tenants moved out leaving them as sole occupants and they have had full unfettered use of the entire property for 6 months, they automatically gain Part 4 rights. They of course are not obliged to enforce those rights but a landlord would be well advised to make sure the situation is perfectly clear all so as to avoid the possibility of them claiming a tenancy exists at a later date.

If they want to continue as licensees get that in writing, ensuring legal advice in the wording of that agreement, and ensure the landlord retains some portion of the property for their own use and exercises their right to visit regularly.
 
A bit of an over reaction? But as an ex-landlord, I like the way you're thinking
 
charlie007 said:
A bit of an over reaction? But as an ex-landlord, I like the way you're thinking
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Perhaps, but if there is legislation making its way through the Dail that would impact on your investment, it would be wise to weigh up all options available.
 
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