Religion in School

nelly said:
Church of Ireland school now can and do refuse children an education based on their religon and they can also refuse teachers based on their religious background and training.
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Are you sure about this?

Is it not just that preference is given to COI members (which is fair enough as far as I'm concerned)
 
A guy i work with was told by a principal of a CoI that he was third on a list,
CoI,
other protestant faiths,
Catholic and other...
nothing about catchment area, special needs etc just based on religion - to me this is a racist entrance criteria
the principal then said "why is it that you want to come here, won't your own take him"?

It is amazing that CoI schools close their doors when classes are maxed out based on grounds of religion but we hear regularly of classes with 30+children in catholic run schools and if they refuse due to space grounds there are ructions - it seems a bit unfair thats all i am saying.
 

This is not unique to CoI schools, Catholic schools can and do apply the same entry criteria, i.e., Catholics will get preference over others of different religions and none.

As for the points to get into teacher training, this is driven purely by the numbers of applicants - if fewer students apply for the CoI colleges, their CAO points will be lower.
 

Mmmm...more or less what I thought.

Are you sure you don't have an agenda Nelly?

It looks to me that generally, catholic establishments/organisations are worse than most in pushing their own agenda, exerting influence etc.
 
Why would i have an agenda, well I don't? My point is people have been told "the school is full / we are applying for a new teacher, talk to you next yeart and we don't have to cater for you because of our religions ethos" for years - its not new and to suggest that Muslim or other religions may be introducing it is wide of the mark.
The teacher training is due to points but I don't think it is that simple. the interview panels for all schools with a religions backing are made up of religious - would someone be hired with a CoI B. Ed if they were being tasked with teaching a Catholic school communion class?

For the record I don't have children and if i did i would send them to the local Gaelscoil as it seems to get good results.
 
nelly said:
would someone be hired with a CoI B. Ed if they were being tasked with teaching a Catholic school communion class?
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I don't know about that but when I was growing up, COI teachers were not permitted to teach in catholic schools. Catholic teachers did however teach in nominally COI schools - including my own.
 
there is one CoI teacher training course versus around 8 Catholic so i am not surprised at that occurring based on suply and demand.
 
nelly said:
there is one CoI teacher training course versus around 8 Catholic so i am not surprised at that occurring based on suply and demand.
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But what's that got to do with COI teachers not being permitted to teach in catholic schools?

It wasn't "Ah you're OK, we have enough - we don't need you", It was "You are not allowed to teach here"
 

It is not wide of the mark to suggest that similar policies are applied by Catholic schools. This is precisely the reason that a new school very controversially has had to be opened in Balbriggan to cater for the black children of immigrants who could not gain entry to local Catholic schools.

http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/catholic--schools-enrolment-policy-may-be-illegal-1077693.html
 
Caveat said:
But what's that got to do with COI teachers not being permitted to teach in catholic schools?

It wasn't "Ah you're OK, we have enough - we don't need you", It was "You are not allowed to teach here"
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And its possible there is the same rule for CoI except they say " Oh well we can't do without you - so we will hire you - based on supply and demand" ?

I am not a teacher and I cannot say such rules exist to this day- so maybe if there is a teacher they can confirm if there is or is not.
Seriously I don't want to get into a tit for tat on this, Caveat - have you an agend perhaps?
 
nelly said:
And its possible there is the same rule for CoI except they say " Oh well we can't do without you - so we will hire you - based on supply and demand" ?
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No, AFAIK there was not the same rule. My point was that even with the supply and demand you mention, in the unlikely but possible scenario that a catholic school needed the skills of a COI teacher, they could not and would not employ them.

nelly said:
Seriously I don't want to get into a tit for tat on this, Caveat - have you an agend perhaps?
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Nor do I wish to get into a tit for tat. The only reason I (jokingly) suggested you may have an agenda is that you seem unwilling to accept that catholic schools apply similar selection policies, for similar reasons - reasons that you seem to think are unacceptable in other cases.

And no, I do not have an agenda.
 

I do know that catholic schools have a selection process but because they are the only show in most towns down through the years they acepted pretty much all applicants and that meant that classes of 30+ were becoming common in the 80s and 90's. The rule was there but I dont believe was exercised in most cases certainly in my school.

for the record i do not believe any school obtaining money from the state, or teachers salaries for that matter should have a selection process based on religion. I think the fairest is first in gets the place no matter who you are or what your parents believe.
 
nelly said:
I do know that catholic schools have a selection process but because they are the only show in most towns down through the years they acepted pretty much all applicants
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I have known of many COI kids living in pretty remote areas throughout the years - every single one managed to be accommodated in a reasonably local COI school. The situation you describe sounds unusual and unlikely to me - that a COI kid would have no option but to attend a catholic school - are you saying the swelling class numbers you mention are due to COI kids with nowhere else to go? I find this very hard to believe.


nelly said:
I think the fairest is first in gets the place no matter who you are or what your parents believe.
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This is obviously ripe for abuse & would almost certainly cause tension.

Imagine the situation if a recently arrived muslim kid got into the school that little Seán lived beside, and whose parents and grandparents went to - simply because they 'got there first'.

What do local catholic families do? Pay backhanders to get the names of unborn children on 'the list' ?

It makes perfect sense, for all concerned, for schools of a certain religious ethos to cater first and foremost to those children. If not, why have this type of school in the first place?
 
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