Referendum on giving Dail more powers for enquires

M

Mpsox

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I'm really not sure how to vote on the 2nd referendum this week and I'm disappointed at both the level of information being sent out on it and also at the lack of any real debate on it. There seems to be some discussion starting over the last few days but is it too late.?

2 things concern me, firstly is the almost unlimited powers that the legislation gives to the investigators, and secondly, do we trust the numpties in Leinster House to exercise those powers properly. Over the last few years, had those powers been in place, someone could have been investigated by a committee containing the likes of Pee Flynn, Ray Bourke, Liam Lawler, Callaly, Lowry, the list goes on and on

Am I right to be concerned?

Not sure if this is the right forum so if any mod wants to move it, feel free
 
I'm in the same boat.

As far as I know, this amendment came about as a result of the Abbeylara tribunal, but I don't know why.

Could anyone enlighten me?

As it stands I will be voting no, but maybe I am missing some crucial point.
 
I'll be voting no. That was my first inclination and I've become more sure the more I've learned about it.
 
It means that finally Bankers and those involved in the downfall of our once great Republic are brought to account in front of a powerful Oireachtas committee that has a set of teeth.
God knows it would be completely unnecessary if we had a half decent Garda investigation and charges would be brought inside of the next decade...but to quote Clowen hateful catchphrase we are where we are...


Will start having a closer look it later before deciding however I read that a number of former attorneys general have already come out strongly against it...
including :

McDowell:Former leader of PDs
Sutherland:Chairman Goldman Sachs
Gleeson:Former AIB Chairman

If these guys (ultimate insiders all) are against it then I have already pretty much already in favour of it.
 
callybags said:
As far as I know, this amendment came about as a result of the Abbeylara tribunal, but I don't know why.

Could anyone enlighten me?
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All I learned is that the investigation into the actions of the Gardai in the Abbeylara incident was deemed to have overstepped the mark due to the current limitations - apparently the inquiry wished to make some findings relating to the Gardai in question public but were not allowed to do so. See [broken link removed] for more. I agree that not enough debate has taken place on these and for that reason I'll also be voting no on this one.
 
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And here's one of my issues, can these people be truely investigated by the likes of Shane Ross, ( who thought the sun, moon and stars shone out the rear end of Fingleton), Mick Wallace (failed property developer who might have his own agenda), any FF TD or any TD who took donations from banks, developers etc etc?

If anything, surely these investigations will reduce the chance of a conviction in the courts since it would give anyone being investigated the ability to claim they would not get a fair trial due to media reporting of the Committee investigation?

It's interesting that in addition to those listed above, most of the independent TDs are also against it
 
Changing our constitution to enable a witch-hunt against rogue bankers, developers or whoever is the bad boy (or girl) of the day is completely wrong.

Reform the many processes that are already in place instead.
 

Unfortunately we only have ourselves to blame as voters for consistently reelecting the likes of Pee Flynn, Ray Bourke, Liam Lawler, Callaly, Lowry etc ad nauseum despite being more than aware of their ahem past,in a functioning democracy these people would be rightfully run out of town on a rail....but once again "we are where we are"

It's interesting that in addition to those listed above, most of the independent TDs are also against it
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They seem to be against everything with very little offered by way of an alternative.
 
callybags said:
Changing our constitution to enable a witch-hunt against rogue bankers, developers or whoever is the bad boy (or girl) of the day is completely wrong.

Reform the many processes that are already in place instead.
Click to expand...

I am waiting over 3 years for any sort of action to be taken over these guys and the beat just goes on and on...rest assured there is no danger any of them will be subject to a witch hunt when the worst that has happened is that Seanie spent a night in the cell and was released the next morning.

I do not intend waiting another 3-5 years for more of the same in the form of reforming the processes that are already in place,while these guys get away scot free and receive massive salaries from NAMA while their wives swan around in Range Rovers courtesy of massive asset transfers.
 
Mpsox said:
Am I right to be concerned?
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Yes. We are about to write into the Constitution "Oireachtas members are the overlords of the people"; heretofore they were our servants, hereafter they will be our masters.

The judges pay referendum is an irrelevance and the Presidential election is a sideshow; the important vote is on Dáil powers. They ran this on the same day as the Presidential election as they knew there would be little debate about it in the media and that it would likely be passed by compliant drone voters. I'll be voting No to it.
 
well said.
 
It rarely happens that I think that Vincent Browne has something reasonable to say, but I thought he made some reasonable points in last week's business post:
[broken link removed]

I certainly think that there are indications that it gives too much power to government and could very well infringe on some very basic constitutional rights. If I could vote I would vote no, as there is not enough clarity over it.
 
I didn't need to hear any debate on the issue, I don't want an auctioneer having that kind of power. A bit glib of me I know but that was the basis of my decision when I heard about it initially.

I don't have a big problem with the judges pay issue but isn't it a non issue now as new entrants have had their pay cut anyway.

I want them all to pay the levies etc. that public servants pay, it shouldn't be an option.

It's a bit disappointing both will be carried though.
 
I will be voting no to both. Have no desire to give that sort of power to TD's. They will end up engaging in publicity seeking witch hunts against individuals. If people break the law, they should be in court.

The judges pay question is ridiculous.
 
I definitely don't want to see that kind of power being invested in politicians. We still have too many people voting in a parochial way and I don't have confidence in a lot of the people sitting in Dail Eireann. Many of them are still there based on what they do for their constituents as opposed to their qualifications, experience, intellect and commitment to the public interest.

Re the Judges pay I don't have a problem as long as it's in line with other public servants' pay reductions.
 
The less power the Fail Gael government has, the better.
A 'No' from me too.

When they run the referendum for the second time, I'll be voting 'No' again.
 
Dont know which way this will go but I am glad it is close. Shows the electorate are not idiots. It was an extremely lazy attempt by the Government to pass through a significant change to our Constitution without any real attempt to explain it. They obviously dont understand that people are reluctant to trust all politicians with more power and not just those on the opposition benches. Hope it doesn't pass and we can have a proper debate.
 
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