Redundancy - what to sign

M

Mordred

Guest
I wonder if anyone can advise me on the following.

In a redundancy / lay off situation, where the grounds may be suspect, can the employee refuse to sign any document put before him. Can the employer threaten not to hand over the settlement cheque / outstanding monies owed etc if the employee refuses to sign anything.

I refer to the signature of a document other than the usual acknowledgement of receipt of pay outstanding / pensions etc.

Also, with regard to a company pension, if the total amount accumulated in a company pension ( employee and employer contribution) is for example € 20,000, and the vesting period is reached enabling the employee to take both his share, and the share contributed by the employer, is the amount due to the employee the full €20k i.e. a buy out bond for €20k or a cash sum of €20k less tax at the marginal rate. Is this normally arranged at the redundancy meeting / interview.

(This is a non unionised company, and any arrangements are between employer and individual)

Any help appreciated

Regards
 
Do you mean the RP1 form? I've been there but can't remember if the employee being made redunant gets to sign this. If you are wary about the reasons for the redundancy or want to know what your rights are in this situation then you should contact the DETE employment rights section as they are very helpful and responsive on these matters:

www.entemp.ie
 
Forms to sign

Thanks for your reply O.

I wasn't really thinking about official redundancy forms to sign, but rather a document which resembles a contract between employee and employer. Let's say that here is no redundancy, just a standard dismissal. Is the employee obliged to sign anything, and perhaps waive their rights to future unfair dismissal action, in return for obtaining their outstanding pay or notice payment.

This happened to me nearly 15 years ago, when I was laid off from a company in London. The financial controller tried to bully me into signing a document, which of course I did not not. He resorted to reading the document aloud to a witness ( a colleague) who then signed it in my place, saying that I heard the content. I told my ex colleague to do as she was requested as I did not care as it was not worth the paper it was written on.

That was then in London, is there any requirement here and now in Dublin.

Thanks in advance

M
 
Re: Forms to sign

I wasn't really thinking about official redundancy forms to sign, but rather a document which resembles a contract between employee and employer. Let's say that here is no redundancy, just a standard dismissal. Is the employee obliged to sign anything, and perhaps waive their rights to future unfair dismissal action, in return for obtaining their outstanding pay or notice payment.
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While I've been made redundant but never otherwise sacked I can't say for sure but I would point out that nobody can force you to waive your statutory rights as far as I know.

This happened to me nearly 15 years ago, when I was laid off from a company in London. The financial controller tried to bully me into signing a document, which of course I did not not. He resorted to reading the document aloud to a witness ( a colleague) who then signed it in my place, saying that I heard the content. I told my ex colleague to do as she was requested as I did not care as it was not worth the paper it was written on.
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Sounds dodgy to me.

Are you saying that you are in a similar situation now? I would urge you to contact the DETE employment rights section as they are very helpful with this sort of stuff. In addition these OASIS links might be of interest:




Also, with regard to a company pension, if the total amount accumulated in a company pension ( employee and employer contribution) is for example € 20,000, and the vesting period is reached enabling the employee to take both his share, and the share contributed by the employer, is the amount due to the employee the full €20k i.e. a buy out bond for €20k or a cash sum of €20k less tax at the marginal rate. Is this normally arranged at the redundancy meeting / interview.
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Yes - the employee should be entitled to the full amount either (a) left invested in the occupational scheme (b) transferred (now or later) to another occupational scheme (c) transferred (now or later) to a buy out/retirement bond or (with 15+ years membership I think) (d) transferred to a PRSA. Tax should not be an issue other than in the case where an employee is able to and chooses to encash the fund and take their own contributions only which will be taxed. This is only an option if you have not served something like two years (including service carried in) in the scheme. When you leave the pension underwriter, consultants or trustees should provide you with a form allowing you to choose which exit option to take. This is not normally a negitiable issue in the context of a redundancy or other exit interview or selection process. Of course if you are being made redundant there's nothing to stop you individually or collectively (even in the absence of union representation) trying to bargain for termination "bonuses" such as pension top-ups etc. but you should at least be entitled to the current value of the fund.

The Pensions Board website is useful on this sort of stuff:

www.pensionsboard.ie
 
"just a standard dismissal"

Mordred,

This sounds like it's definitely NOT a redundancy situation - if it were I would suggest that employer wants the documentation would need to be signed as the employer can claim back some of the statutory element of the redundancy payment (used to be 60%) not quite sure if this has changed.

Reading between the lines I suspect that there is an agreement between the employer and the employee to go their seperate ways. If this is mutually agreeable then the employer would appear to be protecting themselves from subsequent claims and they want the signature "in respect of full and final payment".

This is fair enough if the employee feels they have been treated fairly and equitably in the negotiations. If there is a doubt about this then do what O suggests and contact the DETE in the 1st instance.

Hope this helps
MAC
 
Re: "just a standard dismissal"

I just checked my copy of an RP1 from a couple of years back and it seems that, in the case of redundancy, this is simply handed to the employee (and also returned by the employer to the DETE) but is not countersigned by the employee. Just in case that's of any relevance in this case. Be careful of signing anything unless you understand all of the implications. But, as I said before, I don't think that you can sign away statutory rights anyway.
 
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