Redundancy Ex-gratia negotiations advice

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Parazard2

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So I've been tagged for redundancy. I'm over 10 years and relatively senior. I have an idea of what others have gotten as an ex-gratia payment recently in my company. It is nowhere near what others seem to get in other companies (not even half). I appreciate it's completely discretionary and they don't have to give me anything beyond the statutory one. Is there any room for negotiation? If so what is the leverage here without risking to aggravate them shrink the existing package? I want to go but I do need to try get as good a package as I can due to my personal circumstances. TIA
 
There is always room for negotiation but what is the selling point here from yourself to argue up the price.? Is there something specific that you know they need to get done and could you say you'll stay for 6 months and complete that? Is a fair process being followed?

Bear in mind if they shrink the package so it is smaller then your colleagues, could you shout discrimination?
 
In case it's of any use and they contain any relevant info, there are many existing Askaboutmoney threads on the topic of redundancy ex-gratia payments. You should be able to find them by doing a search.

Key Post - The best way to search Askaboutmoney

I don't use the inbuilt search function as it's poor. Google is much better. Instead of typing "history of AIB standard variable rate" into askaboutmoney, type the following into Google site:www.askaboutmoney.com history of aib standard variable rate
www.askaboutmoney.com
 
Is it really redundancy?

Plenty of companies have job cuts & pay c 2 years salary to effectively ensure its not worth your while going to WRC. If you think this might be the case, go for the max you can get.
 
Thank you everyone. Indeed I wonder why would they be in any way motivated to increase an exit package at all. How do I make sure I get the max? Is it a matter of just trying to extend the timeline for more salary or is making any kind of case about my specific contribution to the business make any difference? They are cutting cost and are removing roles as they will no longer seek to have this capacity in house and will outsource if and when needed.
Totally clueless here
 
Unless you are close to retirement he most important thing is your next job. That is where your focus needs to lie. Crucial you leave on the very best terms possible.
 
Parazard2 said:
Thank you everyone. Indeed I wonder why would they be in any way motivated to increase an exit package at all. How do I make sure I get the max? Is it a matter of just trying to extend the timeline for more salary or is making any kind of case about my specific contribution to the business make any difference? They are cutting cost and are removing roles as they will no longer seek to have this capacity in house and will outsource if and when needed.
Totally clueless here
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So in the sense that roles get made redundant and not people, their practice at a high level makes sense. However, if they are outsourcing a role, then the potential of TUPE (Transfer of Undertaking of Perm Employees) rears it's head. If they ended up outsourcing to an Irish based company then you could have an entitlement to transfer to the new provider and retain your service and salary entitlements. However if they were doing this and turned down the transfer, you'd be deemed to have resigned.

My starting point would be to ask them, "why"? Secondly, ask "why was I chosen"? Thirdly, ask then" what is happening your role and tasks"? Then you'll have a clearer understanding

Based on your service, in my experience a bank/multinational would be offering around 1 year + statutory,
 
Thank you. Yeah they're not offering anywhere near a year. I guess it may come close to 5 months gross salary, so maybe 8-9 net if I opt to not ay any tax on it. Maybe this compares ok?They are making cuts because they need to cut back on costs.
I'd rather take money and go at this stage, but I am unclear whether I should be negotiating anything they offer me if it's below what other companies seem to offer, or is it just bad luck to be with a company that will offer much less?
 
Didn't work in a bank but in multinationals. 2 redundancies. After nearly 10 and nearly 15 years. Offering far lower than that. First one was close to one year with statutory. The other one was about 65 per cent of gross including statutory. It really depends on the company. The second one had redundancy in the past, with better deals.
 
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If it's an MNC local HR might be more sympathetic. They may realize that they could be getting the same package themselves, and they'll be looking at any way of making the process less painful - they do have some motivation to at least try to improve the package.

The ex-gratia element might be set in stone. However there are other aspects that might be more flexible - adjusting the notice period, delaying the redundancy by a month or two, extending health insurance, bringing forward a bonus payment etc..
 
Parazard2 said:
Indeed I wonder why would they be in any way motivated to increase an exit package at all.
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There’s a quid pro quo at play. Companies offer enhanced redundancy packages in return for your signed agreement to a range of provisions. These include waiving your employment rights. So for example if you were replaced by another person, the redundancy would really have been a sham but if you’ve signed a waiver, you’d have no recourse.

There can be other provisions such as non-compete etc but they’re not really enforceable.

Signed agreements offer certainty to employers that no potential liabilities will arise in the future. They attach a value to that certainty which is built into the offer they’re making to you.

The alternative to an enhanced package is statutory redundancy for which a signed agreement is not required and you are not required to waive your rights etc.

The company will want you to sign so you always have some scope to test their resolve in this regard.
 
They want and need you to sign that waiver, if you don't ask you don't get. Particularly a US MNC.

Things you can request that aren't necessarily salary/service are:

Health Insurance paid out until a certain time (I got 6 months once, very handy as next role didn't offer it so I got to keep the good corporate plan)
Training Fund (the company paid invoices or paid out vouched expenses for this)
Bonus/commission brought forward - you would be a "good leaver"
Keeping assets (eg laptops, any other equipment)
Try to get your unemployment claim under the new scheme after 1st March so you get the enhanced benefit
Make sure they give you the correct notice period of 6 weeks for your 10 years...your contract might only have 4/ one month.
Time off when it would otherwise be impossible - you have the ability to set your new start date with your new employer - if there are blackout periods for holidays/leave then use this to your advantage eg if you have school aged kids that you can take school holiday time off.

Whatever you do end up with, take it and don't wonder about it again. Maximise the tax free element of it and realise that anything over a certain amount might be taxable at 52.1% so stressing over incremental amounts might not be worth the trouble.

As another poster said, your next role is the thing to focus on and hopefully you will be able to secure a role very soon and not eat into your lump sum so that this turns into a bonus. I've been there twice and each time it opened up a new door or a new path for me. With ten years experience you have will have a lot to offer a new employer so best of luck with it.
 
While looking for a new job is key, don't rush into the first job coming your way because you need a job. Look at your opportunities, at what you want to do... Or if you realise the new job doesn't suit you, don't hesitate to move on again.
 
Premos said:
While looking for a new job is key, don't rush into the first job coming your way because you need a job. Look at your opportunities, at what you want to do... Or if you realise the new job doesn't suit you, don't hesitate to move on again.
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100% this. Did it both times and explored things that I didn't pursue permanently but led to better things down the line. Was very freeing taking those chances knowing that it wasn't the leap of faith it would have been to have left a role on purpose!
 
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