Question-entitlements of partners on bereavement

[mangos]

Hi hoping someone can offer assistance on behalf of friend of mine.

Here is scenario-friend's sister buys house with partner and they live together in house for about four years. My friend's sister dies unexpectedly. She had broken up with partner for about six months prior to her death and her partner had moved to another city. On friend's sister's death, ex partner moves back into house. He removes all her clothes etc. Gets her family to sign all sorts of documents and generally takes over everything. Friend's family pays for funeral costs etc but they receive no issue of probate or no personal documents relating to their sister/daughter. They contact their daughter's solicitor and ask what they are entitled to have as next-of-kin. They are told they cannot see any documents.

The ex partner puts house up for sale. He informs family of his decision.

Do they have any rights in this matter?

Many thanks
Mangos

 

[z109]

Unless he is named in the will, he has no rights whatsoever, as far as I know.

If the friend's sister died intestate (without a will), her goods will be divided between her living relatives.

Treat it as if a stranger has broken into the house and call the guards.

 

[terrysgirl33]

Since they bought the house together, it depends on how they owned it.

 

[Bronte]

If she died without making a will then her share of the house will go to her parents (if dead) brothers & sisters. Do the family not know what documents they signed for the partner, was it done in a solicitor's office? As the partner is selling the house it seems he has the right to do so, maybe he's the executor of her will. Are you sure she owned the house with the partner? She may have made a will giving everything to the partner.

 

[loll]

i think he is entitled to the house and the family cant do anything, they would have had mortgate protection so that if one died the house would be paid for as it is deemed the other would not be able to pay the repayments.

 

[csirl]

With most joint house purchases, if one person dies, the other gets the house in full. If this is the case, then the ex-boyfriend probably owns the house fully.

However, if there is no will (you need to check) your friends sisters other assets, including all property she had in the house e.g. clothes, personal effects, have to go through probate and will be inherited by her family NOT the ex-boyfriend.

 

[Bronte]

I disagree Csirl, most purchases of property/house between husband and wife is where if one dies the other automatically becomes owner. But in 99% of cases of non related people buying, the ownership is held separately. There are two different names for these type of ownership - I think it's joint tenancy and tenancy in common.
The life insurance policy is a different matter. It probably went directly to the mortgage provider - this has nothing to do with ownership.

 

[csirl]

Tenancy in common is the default form of concurrent estate, in which each owner, referred to as a tenant in common, is regarded by the law as each owning separate and distinct shares which may differ in size. This form of ownership is common where the co-owners are not married or have contributed different amounts to the acquisition of the property. Also, if joint owners had attempted to use another form of joint ownership such as a joint tenancy with right of survivorship or a tenancy by the entirety, and the effort was for some reason invalid, the joint owners would then be tenants in common. If conclusive evidence is not available of the desire to create a tenancy with rights of survivorship or a tenancy by the entirety, courts will determine that a tenancy in common has in fact been created.
Tenants in common have no right of survivorship, meaning that if one owner dies, that owner's interest in the property will pass by inheritance to that owner's devisees or heirs, either by will, or by intestate succession.
Tenancy in common is the default form of concurrent estate, in which each owner, referred to as a tenant in common, is regarded by the law as each owning separate and distinct shares which may differ in size. This form of ownership is common where the co-owners are not married or have contributed different amounts to the acquisition of the property. Also, if joint owners had attempted to use another form of joint ownership such as a joint tenancy with right of survivorship or a tenancy by the entirety, and the effort was for some reason invalid, the joint owners would then be tenants in common. If conclusive evidence is not available of the desire to create a tenancy with rights of survivorship or a tenancy by the entirety, courts will determine that a tenancy in common has in fact been created.
Tenants in common have no right of survivorship, meaning that if one owner dies, that owner's interest in the property will pass by inheritance to that owner's devisees or heirs, either by will, or by intestate succession.


joint tenancy with right of survivorship or JTWROS is a type of concurrent estate in which the joint owners have a right of survivorship, meaning that if one owner dies, that owner's interest in the property will automatically pass to the remaining owner or owners. On the death of one of the tenants, the whole of the property passes to remaining tenant(s); this is the "right of survivorship." The deceased tenant's property interest simply evaporates by operation of law, and cannot be inherited by his heirs (which means it avoids going through probate). Under this type of ownership, the last owner living takes all.

 

[csirl]

But in 99% of cases of non related people buying, the ownership is held separately. There are two different names for these type of ownership - I think it's joint tenancy and tenancy in common.

Is it that high? I was under the impression that in recent years, many co-habiting couples have opted for the joint tenancy option as their relationship is more similar to a married couple than simply two investors buying a property.

This is something that is essential that the OP check out - what type of tenancy did they have?

 

[Vanilla]

So to sum up:

1. If the couple owned as joint tenants her partner may have inherited her share automatically. It is possible to sever a joint tenancy however and I would think that this spect should be checked ( by legal advice) especially as the couple had split up.

2. If the couple owned as tenants in common ( or if the joint tenancy had severed, see above) then her share passed by way of her estate. If she made a will it will go via her will. If she didnt and she had no children, her parents would be entitled to her share.

Steps to take to ascertain the position: if it is a land registry property they can obtain a copy of the folio and this will tell them if they owned as tenants in common or joint tenants ( if it is silent it is joint tenants). Find out if they don't already know whether any steps had been taken to formalise the couples separation via a solicitor or letters between the couple= if they had split up what had been intended as regards ownership of the house. If there was a will or if tenants in common a grant will have to be taken out to her estate before a sale can proceed- check if one has been taken out- if so its a public document and theyare entitled to a copy.

Finally they should obtain independant legal advice. Any solicitor can get teh folio ( possibly while they are in the office) and a copy grant for them.

 

[z104]

Bought my house with my girlfirend. If I croak it she gets the house. If she croaks it I get the house. The solicitor asked us this question when we were signing for the mortgage and signed forms to this effect.
We had the option of one half being split between next of kin. Way too messy.
Family get nothing.

As previous poster said- Co Hab Couples are living a married life nowadays.

 

[lightup]

Bought my house with my girlfirend. If I croak it she gets the house. If she croaks it I get the house. The solicitor asked us this question when we were signing for the mortgage and signed forms to this effect.
We had the option of one half being split between next of kin. Way too messy.
Family get nothing.

As previous poster said- Co Hab Couples are living a married life nowadays.

Yes, but this is because your solicitor specifically set it up that way. This is not the case for every co-habiting couple and may not be the case in this instance.

As previous posters said, the terms of ownership need to be checked.

Any other property would be divided as per the will or, if no will, under intestacy rules.

 

[Stifster]

I disagree Csirl, most purchases of property/house between husband and wife is where if one dies the other automatically becomes owner. But in 99% of cases of non related people buying, the ownership is held separately. There are two different names for these type of ownership - I think it's joint tenancy and tenancy in common.
The life insurance policy is a different matter. It probably went directly to the mortgage provider - this has nothing to do with ownership.

To the best of my knowledge that % is incorrect, the majority of joint purchases are as joint tenants.

In addition if the property was held by the parties as tenants in common then the survivor wouldnt be able to sell as the title deeds would show that and any purchasers solicitor would see it a mile off.

It is more than likely that it passed by way of survivorship.