mandelbrot
Registered User
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By the way, you have no idea who I am, so keep rhetoric bull for your mates in the pud who know you enough to suffer it.
The market value of a piece of unzoned land without PP, whose current use is agricultural, will be closer to it's agri value. Any valuation would have to factor in development potential, but that's all it is at that point, potential.
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While it isn't a problem to apply for planning while your brother owns the land, he will then be gifting you a site which will presumably be worth a lot more than the agricultural land it is at the moment.
It would likely make more sense to let him gift you agricultural land and then you get planning permission and it becomes a site.
That way you pay stamp duty, CAT and the brother's CGT on a lower valuation.
Agricultural land values are relevent when you are transfer a large acreage. When someone transfers an acre of land or probably less it's obvious it's not for farming. Especially so if it has road frontage.
This is one of the reasons attributed to buying plots with a price agreed 'pending' granting of planning permisson. If revenue think it's for a plot they will question the evaluation of you small piece of land, and the fact it may not currently have planning on it is irrelevent to this.
the question is, what value would the unzoned site fetch if it were put up for sale in the open market. There's no question that this value would be substantially less than the value of a site with planning permission, so it absolutely is relevant whether the transfer happens prior to or after planning permission is obtained.
You are misunderstanding me here. I will put it simply. Go to a local estate agent and tell them you want an evaluation of an acre of land that he will see on their visit, which they will have to do, is small and has road frontage. No planning et al.
Come back to me and tell me this evaluation is agricultural land prices. Revenue have red flaged evaluers who try to pass this off. It is not a black and white issue as some are suggesting here. It's not either or. Anyone I know in this line of work will not put agri values on a small plot. The value may be substantially less than a site with PP but it will be substandially more than agricultural land which changes hands in a volumn.
As per the above I'm not disagreeing - I'm saying what I've said all along - the value before you obtain planning will be less than the value afterwards. What I disagreed with, was the impression that the agri value is irrelevant just because the parcel being sold is suitable as a site.Firstly this is the same point to which you disagreed with earlier, and is what I am trying to say to OP. Now your agreeing with me. Like I said to OP it's not, either, or. If the farmer next door sells 20 acres for 10k an acre it's wrong to say that your single acre is thus worth 10k.
That's in no way surprising - but again I would suggest that you're putting the cart before the horse here. You only have to furnish the actual valuations if / when Revenue ask for them. If they ask for them it's because they already are unhappy with the figures used (an exception may be if a CG50 is being sought). It doesn't really matter therefore whether the valuer is on their naughty list or not, because they're likely to dispute the figures anyway.I have first hand experience of an estate agent who attracted attention from revenue more than once when their letterhead was seen attached, as they were using their position to help someone avoid tax previously and revenue were keeping an eye on them. This happened.
Talk about a chip on your shoulder - unless you're a tax / property professional then I would stand over my assertion that myself and other posters here have more experience and expertise in this area than you, nowhere did I suggest stupidity on your part, I merely suggested that your language suggested less familiarity than other posters.Thirdly, I have dyslexia and when you write things and even reread them poor spelling and repeating words is an everyday difficult occurance.
But dont let your own ignorance stop you from branding me stupid.
thanks Troy and Mandelbrot for you input. I think ye have both identified a key point of my query- i.e. how much the land will be valued for. I will get it valued to see, but even if it was valued more than the agri value, it would still be cheaper than going out buying a site in our area with PP. We are currently checking out whether my brother or father may become liable for tax as the transaction on farm transfer happened < 2 years ago, and now brother is essentially transferring ~ acre to me which looks like a break in his condition of farm inheritance. We would obviously be paying for this tax liability so would be interested to know your opinions on this, i.e. would revenue look back at father/brother transaction?
That won't make much difference if a problem arises further down the line (except to reduce or eliminate any penalties) - Revenue won't be bound by a mistake or erroneous advice from one member of staff. If it transpires tax is due it'll still be collected.If you do get an answer you like from someone on what the previous transfer means now, from someone in revenue, make sure you get their name and get it in writing.
Except that as the OP is already aware, there is a substantial difference depending on how long it is since the original transfer. Vanilla gave some good advice in this regard earlier.I went through this exact process that your going through but the transfer from my father to my brother was done years before, but I guess once it's done it's done
Well which is it, are you advising him to pay for good professional tax advice, which on a property transaction will always pay for itself, or are you suggesting he DIY it, or get a solicitor who may not have a breeze about the tax aspects, to do it.I would also suggest you have an accountant look at the tax calculation. I have an accountant working for me so it didn't cost me, but if you know someone it may halp to keep the bill down if it's done correctly. But this is not a big deal and I wouldn't spend on it just to save small as a solicitor will have it close enough.
There may have been changes in the Gov budgets that may have affected this area, so get proper advice
Agreed, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing...there are alot of student types and people with little actual experience on aam etc giving advice as if it were godspell.
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