Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% cut?

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

I am not really arguing over the pay cuts out of gross or net pay. I am simply looking at from a purely PR point of view if you like. The TV's and Papers are full of teachers, nurses etc talking about how the pension levy has almost left them destitute and they are saying they have already sacrificed as much as they can. However, if you look at what actually comes off their net take home, look at where inflation is, they are actually not that much more worse off if at all.

I am simply saying that there must be scope there for more cuts without leaving people on the poverty line as claimed by the unions.
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

A very interesting point was made by Charlie Weston on Matt Cooper with respect to the pension levy.

It's within the newly agreed Green program for government to reduce tax relief on pensions to a universal 30% rather than the marginal rate. As such as the pension levy calculations go out the window and every PS worker will pay a much higher pension levy contribution.

7-8% (3-4%) would go to 5-6%
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c


As far as I am aware, the green proposal is to have a common tax relief rate of 30%. This means that for people on the top rate they will get less tax relief but for people paying at 20% they will actually be entitled to more tax relief. So higher earners lose out but lower earners gain.
In the case of the public service I do not know what percentage of employees claim tax relief at these two rates so it is hard to predict how much the government will gain from this.

I actually thought the government may only give tax relief at the lower rate of 20% in the next budget, which would mean that it would save money on all private and public sector workers that are currently claiming it at the higher rate. In the case of the public sector, this would affect the pension levy and also pension contributions for post 95 employees.
I have no idea how much the government would save but it could be an option of saving money on PS wages without implementing an actual pay cut, so the government can say 'We cut pay further' and the unions can say 'they haven't cut PS salaries'.
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Apologies, I work in civil service post 95.
Do public sector workers such as nurses, doctors, teacher pre 95 pay pension contribution also?
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Shawady said:
Apologies, I work in civil service post 95.
Do public sector workers such as nurses, doctors, teacher pre 95 pay pension contribution also?
Click to expand...

I'm pre 95 and have always paid pension of 5% and a modified stamp D. This is the case for all officer grades in the HSE ie: Nurses, doctors.

Non-officer grades such as porters/attendants/EMT's pay full prsi and pension contributions - the change in 1995 did not effect them.
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

I'm also pre-95 public service and I pay 6.5% - there's an additional 1.5% for Spouse's and Orphans which employees used to have an option to join or not, but I think it became compulsory back in the early 90s?

Also pay modified PRSI contribution (D).
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c



Are you sure? My pension is 5% and S&O (complusary) is 1.5%.
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Shawady said:
Apologies, I work in civil service post 95.
Do public sector workers such as nurses, doctors, teacher pre 95 pay pension contribution also?
Click to expand...

Yes, most, if not all, public servants hired pre 1995 pay 5% + 1.5% of gross wage in superannuation for their pension.

Example: I know of teachers who always paid 6.5% of wages since they were hired in the 70s.
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Protocol said:
Yes, most, if not all, public servants hired pre 1995 pay 5% + 1.5% of gross wage in superannuation for their pension.

Example: I know of teachers who always paid 6.5% of wages since they were hired in the 70s.
Click to expand...

That means that if the government did reduce the tax relief to 20% for pension contributions including the levy it could potentially bring a reasonable amount of money.
If they go for one rate at 30%, the extra relief earned by lower earners might eat into the amount the government could gain from high earners.

Anyone have any idea roughly how much tax relief to pensions (public and private) costs the government per annum?
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Sorry Becky,

My post should have been clearer - I meant that I pay 6.5% (including 1.5% S&O contribution), re-reading it I can see it might have read that I was paying 6.5% + 1.5% which of course isn't the case.
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

According to Nurses Union leader on Matt Cooper this deduction is not tax deductable. He was pressed a number of times so it wasn't a slip of the tongue. So the average cut is 7.5%.

I'm confused.
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Just heard that too on the Last Word, I thought all pension deductions were tax deductable. Surely the Union leaders would have the correct information? I'm confused too.
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Just heard that too on the Last Word, I thought all pension deductions were tax deductable. Surely the Union leaders would have the correct information? I'm confused too.
Click to expand...

The pension levy is not regarded as a pension deduction for tax purposes. Pension contributions are defined in the Pensions Act. The legislation introducing the pension levy specifically says that the levy cannot be regarded as a pension contribution as defined by the Pensions Act - see extract below from Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act 2009

7​
​
​
​
​
.—(1) Nothing in this Act is to be read as conferring any
additional benefit payable, or that may become payable, under a
public service pension scheme.
(2) A deduction under section 2 is not a pension contribution for
the purposes of the Pensions Act 1990.​

 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

A union leader should be able to understand simple things like tax relief. Understanding all aspects of members' pay would be pretty much the first job for this guy.

Perhaps he should have it spelt out to him by whoever within the INO produced this table


For instance this shows the 7.5% deduction for a 50k employee costing that person 4.4% of salary. A contribution of 3750 becomes 2211 after relief. (They didn't include PRSI relief as the "amount of relief varies on whether the employee is paying PRSI at the full or modified rate".)

On the plus side it seems there's an opening for the government to switch the levy to a simple pay cut since the misunderstanding seems quite common. (Though I've charitably been assuming that the misunderstanding is people being disingenuous.)
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Eddie Hobbs on Matt Cooper reckons the cut is 4% not 7% as it attracts tax relief. That assertion hasn't been challenged.
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Howitzer said:
Eddie Hobbs on Matt Cooper reckons the cut is 4% not 7% as it attracts tax relief. That assertion hasn't been challenged.
Click to expand...

Heard Eddie Hobbs on the Last Word this evening with a male teacher who really knew what he was talking about. First time I ever heard Eddie being put in his box!
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Listening to Vincent Brown every single striker he interviews reckons they've taken a 7.5% pay cut - no matter what you look at it that can't be right.

The 7.5% figure has been bandied about as an average yet every worker seems to think they themselves have taken a 7.5% cut. They all appear to be from the lower end of the pay range. There is a sliding scale and there's no way those people would be at the high/average end.

It appears to me as if these workers are either being misinformed or just don't understand what they themselves are actually being paid.

I think the guys at the bottom are being used to protect their higher paid colleagues.
 
Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c


Were we watching the same programme? How many interviewees on your tv spoke about taking a 7.5% pay cut? Every single striker?

I think it's you're doing the misinforming.
 
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