That's all well and good if you are average!
It's not unreasonable to assume that some people will be 25% poorer while some who won't lose their jobs will be static (eg - public sector workers)
If such a significant minority of workers are 25% poorer, it implies that the bulk of private sector workers are slightly better off or a similar number to the significant minority are 17-20% (25 minus 5-8%) better off?
The public sector were asked to pay for their own pensions with not a single job axed yet!. As much as the unions spin this it's not a paycut.
Again to that second posters point, ordinary worker people who have to pay for their own faltering pensions will never be convinced that PS workers beens asked to contribute to their 'guaranteed' pension is anything close to a paycut.
And where are you getting the private sector paycut is mostly reduced hours. Not the reality by a country mile! It's because PS are so removed from the reality of most Irish people with these kind of asumptions that makes people so angry.
We even have union leaders coming out and saying this should be addressed through work practises.. What to hell was benchmarking about?? Why cant benchmarking go the other way?? Unions for years harped on about inflation, now that we have deflation they dont want want to know.
As for complainers CSO figures these do not reflect (at the CSO's own admission) the declining reality of like with like. They were a limp attempt to try and put credence to some claims. As the say you can prove with physics that an elephant can fir through the eye of an needle but the reality is simply different. The ESRI figures were more acurate and even ventured on the conservative side as it didn't fully factor the guaranteed pension return and job security.
Its no wonder people are so angry.
It's not public service bashing it's just not fair on the rest of the population to prop up this nonsense when the country cant afford it.
I actually had to read your post several times to get any sense of what you were saying.
I agree. The minute I read the opening post I wondered how long it would be before someone managed to twist it into a bash at the Public Service. It's getting ridiculous. Someone even managed to have a go at the PS in a thread about someone's neighbour burning rubber.
1) Mayo are chokers and will never win
4) Cork footballers cant perform in a final in Croker, or against Kerry in Croker
Its practically impossible for this thread to not go off topic because if you suggest a "myth" then it gets explored & immediately goes off topic. e.g. if I throw in a few sporting ones:
1) Mayo are chokers and will never win correct
2) Kilkenny are now a dirty shower who'll stop at nothing to win. just take out 'now' and it will be correct.
3) This Kerry team can never beat Tyrone correct
4) Cork footballers cant perform in a final in Croker, or against Kerry in Croker correct
5) Expectation crushes the Dubs ... annually. correct
6) Rafa is dead man walking. 14million pound pay off will make him a rich dead man walking, but correct again
7) Wenger cant break out of the mediocre cycle he's trapped in. incorrect
8) Chelsea are on the long term slide as they've no youth system and Abramovich is losing interest incorrect
9) Ulster football is puke football incorrect
10) Berbatov is a lazy good-for-nuthin' statement has some merit.
Take your pick of any of the above and off the debate rages .... off topic.
Whilst I don't disagree with you Liaconn, it's not always this black and white. All too often the so called 'bashing' is as a direct result of PS/CS defenders or apologists making points that when debated or questioned, are simply rebutted by accusations of bashing ?!
Not all questioning or examination of points or posts that defend the PS/CS can automatically be called bashing simply because they are critical by their very nature.
Some PS/CS posters even instigate this cycle of bashing themselves you know...
Its bad enough that the media wont take the public service to proper task as per the point been revelent to the posters question, but now you want to BAN ALL DISCUSSION ON THE PUBLIC SERVICE! This speaks volumns..
Hopefully Lenihan will see through the 'facts' as some present them here.
The problem is not "making points" that PS employees have a problem with it's "making stuff up" that they have a problem with.
Eg about time PS employees paid for their own pensions...they have been doing so since 1995. Contributing somewhat, but actually paying for them?? c'mon, it would cost a fortune to provide those pensions, especially with the cool add ons like the pension is tagged to what people in that role are now earning - fantasyland stuff. Would index linking it not have been enough?
Eg the pension levy goes towards the PS pension fund, it does not, it goes into general funds. What odds where it goes, you're getting the rolls royce pension anyway, why do you care how it's being paid for?
Eg ESRI say PS are over paid by 25% but have included the very very highly paid semi-state bodies in the figure. Ok, though it raises the point about why there are very very high paid and are they unnecessarily highly paid and are we getting value. The obvious ones are the RTE "stars".
Eg all PS employees get fantastic pensions when they retire but fail to mention that is only true if they are in the PS a full 40 years. But its a proportionate thing, not like its 40 or tough luck, buttons for you.
Eg fail to mention that when you join the PS you are obligued to take their pension whether you want it or not. Wouldnt you be mad not to since its such a sweet deal. Its hardly a burden.
Eg flexi-time gets PS employees extra time off. Whats the allegation? btw the "institutionalised" overtime is a major problem.
Eg teachers get 30 days sick leave per year but fail to mention that the average sick leave by teachers is 1 day a year. Maybe teachers are an exception, but I hear that in places like Revenue they are treated as holidays that you are expected to take.
I could go on but you get the drift.
I would like the Admins to reinstate the cease fire.
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