I'm furious, I can't believe what I've just heard about the Private Residential Tennancies Board. My tenant moved out last month, and a new tenant has moved in. I now have to pay another 70 euro out for a service that is completely useless. What a RIP OFF. Has anybody any ideas how us landlords can protest? Something has to be done!
PRTB (Private Residential Tennancies Board) Ripoff
- Thread starter cathybun
- Start date
Re: Prtb Ripoff
Are you sure about that? Seeing that the tenants' details (including PPSNs) must be registered I would have assumed that a new tenant replacing an old one would require the tenancy details to be changed and, perhaps, the modified tenancy to be (re)registered? See [broken link removed] on the PRTB website for more on this.cathybun said:
Re: Prtb Ripoff
I rang them today and the person in the PRTB said that if there are a number of people sharing a house, and one of them changes, then there is no fee for changing the registration, even though this would still involve changing tenant's PPSNs etc. However, if everybody moves out, and new tenants replace them, a fee has to be paid. See the part from the website you referred to that says:
I rang them today and the person in the PRTB said that if there are a number of people sharing a house, and one of them changes, then there is no fee for changing the registration, even though this would still involve changing tenant's PPSNs etc. However, if everybody moves out, and new tenants replace them, a fee has to be paid. See the part from the website you referred to that says:
"The landlord must inform the Board of a change in the rent payable in respect of a dwelling within one month of the change occurring. Landlords should at the same time notify the Board of any other change to the registered tenancy details e.g. a replacement tenant. No fee is payable for informing the Board of these changes."
It goes on to say:
It goes on to say:
"Once a tenancy is registered it remains a registered tenancy for as long as the tenancy remains in existence. Once the tenancy is terminated, any new tenancy created in respect of the dwelling must be registered with the Board.....This new tenancy must be registered with the Board and the registration fee paid."
Re: Prtb Ripoff
If you think that the rules don't make sense or are unfair then I suppose you could complain directly to them and/or lobby your local elected representatives but I'm not sure how much good it will do given that the PRTB is now a statutory body and the relevant rules are in legislation now.
If you think that the rules don't make sense or are unfair then I suppose you could complain directly to them and/or lobby your local elected representatives but I'm not sure how much good it will do given that the PRTB is now a statutory body and the relevant rules are in legislation now.
Z
z107
Guest
Re: Prtb Ripoff
Being forced to pay €70 for nothing. I'd call it extortion myself.
Being forced to pay €70 for nothing. I'd call it extortion myself.
Re: Prtb Ripoff
Isn't the PRTB registration fee an expense that can be set against rental income in order to reduce the tax due? The registration fee is not "for nothing" as it goes towards funding the operation of the PRTB which providers services to landlords and tenants. Landlords always have the option of increasing the rent to cover this cost of doing business.
Isn't the PRTB registration fee an expense that can be set against rental income in order to reduce the tax due? The registration fee is not "for nothing" as it goes towards funding the operation of the PRTB which providers services to landlords and tenants. Landlords always have the option of increasing the rent to cover this cost of doing business.
Re: Prtb Ripoff
All very well and good if you are managing to make a profit in the first place to actually have to pay tax!
And this "service" you refer to can't even manage to send out a receipt of payment within 6 months of receiving a cheque.
As for increasing rents for this expense, it's simply not an option. First of all, rents barely cover mortgage costs these days for a reason. There is too much competition out there. And what are we meant to do, add 5.83 each month? I can see it now "House to rent for 1005.83 per month"! Tenants would think you're a lunatic.
ClubMan said:
All very well and good if you are managing to make a profit in the first place to actually have to pay tax!
And this "service" you refer to can't even manage to send out a receipt of payment within 6 months of receiving a cheque.
As for increasing rents for this expense, it's simply not an option. First of all, rents barely cover mortgage costs these days for a reason. There is too much competition out there. And what are we meant to do, add 5.83 each month? I can see it now "House to rent for 1005.83 per month"! Tenants would think you're a lunatic.
If a landlord is not making a profit then presumably the venture into residential property investment is not viable so it may be time to cut the losses. I hardly think that the matter of €70 per tenancy registration is going to make or break such a venture so I can't see that tipping it over the edge into a loss making scenario. It's a free market out there and nobody owes landlords or any other business owner a living.
I think a true measure of whether the PRTB is a rip off or not is if they did not act in a timely or appropriate manner if you needed to use them...not the €70 reg fee.
If you cannot afford to even write off this fee against your annual profit & are complaining about to much competition then perhaps its time from you to sell up!
ninsaga
If you cannot afford to even write off this fee against your annual profit & are complaining about to much competition then perhaps its time from you to sell up!
ninsaga
An immediate profit does not have to be made for the venture to be viable. If this was the case, there would be very little rental accomodation available in Ireland. Not everybody is out for a quick buck, some of us are in it for the longer term to realise capital appreciation and hopefully some return if rents rise in the future.
I would agree that €70 will not break the bank, but if you're unfortunate enough for your tenants to change three or four times in a year or two, this €280 just simply isn't fair. Another landlord who may be lucky enough to have an original tenant, even though two or three other rooms in the same house have changed hands, would not have to pay a penny. I can't see the logic behind it.
Yes, it's a free market, but if the government want rental accomodation to remain readily available, like it currently is in most areas, they should not impose unfair penalties like this. It's just another thing to discourage people to invest further in this country.
I would agree that €70 will not break the bank, but if you're unfortunate enough for your tenants to change three or four times in a year or two, this €280 just simply isn't fair. Another landlord who may be lucky enough to have an original tenant, even though two or three other rooms in the same house have changed hands, would not have to pay a penny. I can't see the logic behind it.
Yes, it's a free market, but if the government want rental accomodation to remain readily available, like it currently is in most areas, they should not impose unfair penalties like this. It's just another thing to discourage people to invest further in this country.
Then perhaps a suitable business strategy to avoid this is to look for longer term tenants/tenancies? Running a business involves keeping control of costs so if you are churning through tenants at such a rate then perhaps remedial action is required?cathybun said:
If your investment is so onerous and the costs so high then why not liquidate it in order to invest in something with a better return and lower costs?
Z
z107
Guest
It's not just about €70. This is yet another in a long line of taxes the government keeps coming up with. This is why we have a rip-off Ireland. This is the root cause.
Someone suggested passing this fee onto tenants. This increases rents which in turn increases inflation. Higher costs get passed on, increasing prices. Then people complain about 'rip-off Ireland'
In the current climate, I would suggest that most new landlords would probably be looking towards capital appreciation as a means of making the venture profitable. (However, in 10-20 years time, everyone will probably be paying 110% of income on various taxes, duties, levies and hidden charges)
[post crossed]
Someone suggested passing this fee onto tenants. This increases rents which in turn increases inflation. Higher costs get passed on, increasing prices. Then people complain about 'rip-off Ireland'
In the current climate, I would suggest that most new landlords would probably be looking towards capital appreciation as a means of making the venture profitable. (However, in 10-20 years time, everyone will probably be paying 110% of income on various taxes, duties, levies and hidden charges)
[post crossed]
Tenancies are getting shorter each year, as banks are more willing to lend out larger amounts of money for mortgages, so it's out of my control if a tenant says they want to take the house for two years, then leave within six months.
Anyway, that hasn't happened me that much, I've been mostly lucky. But you seem to be missing my point. The fact is that this is an unfair and stupid rule of the PRTB to every landlord, not just moany old me!
I'm not saying that my investment is onerous or that the costs are excessive, but my point there was that the rental market was so bad for tenants five years ago, that they were forced into taking sub-standard accomodation. If the government wants to avoid this happening again, they should be encouraging landlords, not unfairly penalising them.
Anyway, that hasn't happened me that much, I've been mostly lucky. But you seem to be missing my point. The fact is that this is an unfair and stupid rule of the PRTB to every landlord, not just moany old me!
I'm not saying that my investment is onerous or that the costs are excessive, but my point there was that the rental market was so bad for tenants five years ago, that they were forced into taking sub-standard accomodation. If the government wants to avoid this happening again, they should be encouraging landlords, not unfairly penalising them.
Someone does need to administer & facilitate in the event of a dispute between landlord & tenant. This is what the PRTB is set up to do .... do you believe that this should be a free service? Perhaps what would be more fair is that the fee should be split between Landlord & tenant unpon signing of letting agreement ie that the tenant also needs to pay €35 for a service that would potentially be to their benefit also...
ninsaga
ninsaga
Ninsaga, you are still missing the point. The original €70 is not the problem. I can just about scrape the barrell to afford that!
However, I don't think I should have to pay it again, six months later, just because I'm changing all the tenants in the house. If one of the original tenants was still there, I wouldn't owe anything.
However, I don't think I should have to pay it again, six months later, just because I'm changing all the tenants in the house. If one of the original tenants was still there, I wouldn't owe anything.
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z107
Guest
I believe it should be an optional service.
No it's not out of your control - you just hold out for tenants who want a long term deal if that's what suits you and your business cost base better.cathybun said:
Is there any campaign on behalf of landlords to repeal the PRTB? I haven't heard of any. I have only heard your complaints about it. Perhaps you should start such a campaign if you feel so strongly about this being an injustice to landlords in general?
What about the ability of landlords to write off 100% of mortgage interest (and other allowable expenses) against rental income while owner occupiers only receive capped mortgage interest tax relief for example? If, as seems to be the case, you don't believe that it's worth investing in residential property due to state interference then why not move your investments elsewhere where the market is arguably less regulated? You could always invest in residential property in a country/economy that has less regulation of this market and less statutory protection of landlords and tenants in the form of bodies such as the PRTB. Or another asset class altogether if property is not really your bag?