Property Investment Decision

Your the fellow who heaps scorn on someone for paying sub 7% on bread and butter purchases like motoring loans while now espousing complicated financial instruments as an alternative to property investing
Where is this coming from?

I haven't heaped scorn on anybody and I certainly haven't recommended any complicated financial instruments. I've simply corrected your false statements.

But, yes, I often recommend paying down expensive debt ahead of investing outside a pension vehicle. I happen to think that's sound advice for most folk.
 

Which statements were " false" ?
 
Which statements were " false" ?
  1. That the return on stocks in most markets has been flat over the last 20 years; and
  2. That it is not possible to invest in stocks on a leveraged basis if you don't have any loans outstanding.
 
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You might as well say if someone has a mortgage, they are then borrowing money for everything else from a cup of coffee to a pair of new shoes
Yup, that's exactly the financial position.

A borrower has a choice what to do with every euro that comes in their hands - pay down their debt or buy something else. If they choose to invest that euro, they are doing so on a leveraged basis.

Incidentally, in many circumstances I think it makes a lot of sense to invest in stocks through a pension ahead of paying down a mortgage ahead of schedule. So I've no principled objection to investing on a leveraged basis.
 

Do you think most people ( who have a mortgage) view a purchase of filling up the car with petrol each week as a " leveraged" purchase ?

Or other mundane regular expenditure
 
Do you think most people ( who have a mortgage) view a purchase of filling up the car with petrol each week as a " leveraged" purchase ?
Why would it matter?

Do you really think that investing while holding debt is any different to taking out a new loan in the same amount to make an investment? The balance sheet effect is identical and that's all that matters.
 
Why would it matter?

Do you really think that investing while holding debt is any different to taking out a new loan in the same amount to make an investment? The balance sheet effect is identical and that's all that matters.

It's a simple yes or no question
 
It's a simple yes or no question

"Most people" don't have a very intuitive view of money - certainly in terms of asset/liabilities and cash flow. It's not a "bad" choice to have a cup of coffee - it's just not divorced from a decision to invest or not. Most companies fail due to insolvency rather than lack of assets or business and most people get into difficulty for a similar reason. Applying a similar sense of financial analysis to one's personal life is a good thing
 

Appreciate your answer but I feel this discussion has become more about philosophy than anything meaningful in a practical reality way

Such philosophy means nothing to most
 
Do you think most people ( who have a mortgage) view a purchase of filling up the car with petrol each week as a " leveraged" purchase ?

Or other mundane regular expenditure

Purchases/Expenditure and Investments are not the same.

It’s possible to borrow to invest; spreadbets, CFDs, ETFs with leverage under the bonnet, Investment Trusts, etc.
 
Eh, you did.

Someone (Sarenco I believe) talked about investing whilst having a mortgage and you started comparing it to buying shoes or coffee.

Sarenco said if you have debt, anything else you buy is a leveraged purchase, I then posed the question if " buying coffee or shoes" if you have a mortgage was thus a leveraged purchase.

I didn't say investments and purchases were the same, you just chose to interprete my post that way
 
You mentioned buying a pair of shoes or a cup of coffee in the context of a discussion on leveraged investing.

But perhaps you were just being philosophical!

Indeed I did and you confirmed to me ( few posts above) when I asked for clarity as to whether spending money on coffee or shoes was a leveraged purchase if holding debt
 
Indeed I did and you confirmed to me ( few posts above) when I asked for clarity as to whether spending money on coffee or shoes was a leveraged purchase if holding debt
No GBI, I didn't.

Please re-read what I actually said in response to your post.
 

No, you said:

“You might as well say if someone has a mortgage, they are then borrowing money for everything else from a cup of coffee to a pair of new shoes”

Sarenco spoke only of investing.

The only person who has conflated investments and purchases is you.
 
No GBI, I didn't.

I don't even know what the phrase "a leveraged purchase" means.

I know you love pedantry but even you can't wriggle out of this one

You said people were buying coffee or shoes with borrowed money if they held debt