Problems with New Windows

Just had new black u-pvc windows installed in my house by a local window manufacturer. I just drafted up a snag list. Some problems are listed below.

However from my inspections I see noticeable paw and dirt marks to the silver border lining between the glass panes. In some cases there are scratch marks.

I also notice that this silver lining is not level in some cases. I do not have the technical term for this border.

Slight crack to one window pane.

Some windows do not close properly.

Appreciate any advice on the above. The manufacturer is 50% paid.

I would go to the legal section of this website. Lucky that you only paid half though, we paid full and got stung!!

I do not want to take legal action on this one.

I have not spoken to the window manufacturer yet. I have just written up a snag list. Just want to get some advice regarding what steps to take next. ie take windows out....put in altered windows etc.

However from my inspections I see noticeable paw and dirt marks to the silver border lining between the glass panes. In some cases there are scratch marks.

Under normal circumstances the silver beading between the panes is not noticable and therefore no one would get to see/notice paw or dirt marks so your description seems unusual. Are the scratch marks noticable also?

I also notice that this silver lining is not level in some cases. I do not have the technical term for this border.

I would have thought it would have to be level and I've never seen otherwise so this sounds odd 2.

Slight crack to one window pane.

Presumably they are double glazed and if so it sounds as if the unit will need to be replaced.

Some windows do not close properly.

It might be just a case of the hinges needing adjusting but you will probably need to speak to the supplier.

Appreciate any advice on the above. The manufacturer is 50% paid.

Hold onto the rest of the money until the repairs are completed to your full satisfaction.

Considering you have "only" paid 50% it seems to me that you are not overly exposed- the manufacturer will surely carry out whatever remedial works are required to ensure full settlement? The snags don't seem that bad; new windows will require some adjustment to ensure they operate correctly and broken glazing is easily repaired.

Just on this issue, I have been asked by a well known supplier to pay the full sum when the windows are dropped off at my site. Is this normal. I have already paid 30% prior to Manufacture. I have no issue paying another 30% when delivered, and the final % when installed and up and running.
Any ideas<<

Unfortunately I would disagree with some previous points:

I would expect the following:

1. All silver beads should be level. The bottom ones and middle ones to a georgian type window look are noticeable if they are not level. I believe if one window is perfect...ie. satisfactory to myself, then all windows should be the same.

2. Hand paw marks and dirt marks are also visible to the eye. It was the first thing I had noticed.

3. I also do not have any trickle vents which were not put into my windows....yet the labels says "Trickle vent sash" on some of the window panes.

I originally requested from the window supplier that my new windows were to be the exact same as my brothers new windows exact I went for black upvc & he went for golden oak upvc. Note both houses are the exact same type.

He does not have any visible paw/dirt marks between the glass panes and he also has trickle vents installed.

I agree the problems with windows incorrectly opening can be corrected...likewise the broken glass.

Should I do up a written snag list???
Am I been too...lets say "German" in this way....complaining and moaning about small little things???
Or should I expect no faults whatsoever...& expect perfect windows???

All comments again, appreciated.

Pope John 11 said:

...Should I do up a written snag list???

Click to expand...

What's delaying you doing up the snag list as well as a note expressing your disappointment with the quality of the product and workmanship as well as the apparent contradictions between product labelling and the actual product?

At the moment your supplier has heard nothing from you and in the absence of any contrary information is probably expecting the balance of his invoice.

Pope John 11 said:

...
Am I been too...lets say "German" in this way....complaining and moaning about small little things???
Or should I expect no faults whatsoever...& expect perfect windows???...

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say you were being anything other than disappointed with what you got; your expectations have not been met.

Sorry maybe I didn't make myself clear.

It would be unusual for the silver beading to be uneven and its normally so narrow that 'paw marks' would not be very visible so your windows seem unusual.

You're right to do a snag list now and get the problems sorted whilst you still have the clout of holding back the 50%. These problems will probably bug you for the duration of the window's lifetime if you don't get them sorted now.

Hayabusa,

We bought our windows from a well known supplier on similar terms to yours. Foolishly, I coughed up the money on delivery as they would not unload them off the lorry if I didnt. I have litany of problems that would put the OP's list to shame. They are working through them - but at their own pace. Cant help feeling, things would be happening quicker if I still had 30% held back. With hindsight I would have stood my ground.

Following previous threads we note the following:

The silver bead would be 10 to 12mm wide....ie. the space between the inside glass pane and the outside glass pane. This is not at all narrow.

Just to clear up 1st 50% payment made: 04/02/08
Windows installed last week: 28/02/08
Draft snag list completed this weekend 01/03/08
as the house is in the country & I work
in Dublin

The company has not called me yet to say the windows are installed and there has not been any pressure to pay the other 50%.

Has anyone else experienced hand prints on the silver bead. Note this silver bead borders the argon filled zone. Yes it is unusual to see the siver bead not level...but this is the case.

Just glad i have held onto 50% of the payment..judging by the previous threads.

By the way trickle vents have not been installed. Has anyone had problems with trickle vents before and can they be retro fiited.

More comments appreciated

I have to reiterate previous posters points... Get your snag list together and write a letter to the suppliers. Straight away.

If you wait until they chase you for the outstanding balance to raise the issues you have, there is a danger it would be interpreted (incorrectly I know...) as a stalling tactic and you could struggle to gain satisfaction.

Take control, list your issues and make the first move.

Just to give my thoughts regarding payment up front, as that is what I was told to do also, otherwise the delivery man wouldn't get out of the lorry. Don't do it. They put all our windows in wrong because the windows didn't come with batons around them, so after a lot of arguing, we ended out having to get a carpenter to come, take them all out and put them back in again, hence the windows were way over budget. We didn't have a leg to stand on because they had full payment.
Advice I was given is don't deal with any company that demands payment up front first, it usually means bad news. If you have already ordered the windows and paid half, demand a letter stating that they will be supplied and installed to the required standards. Once you receive this, you can pay them in full, thus, if there is a something wrong, you have a leg to stand on because they broke their contract.

Just to let everyone know I will draft up a snag list today. The list would include the following:

1. No trickle vents yet label said "Trick vent sash".
2. Silver bead between glass panes are not level.
3. Broken glass to be repaired.
4. Hand marks on the silver beads between the glass panes.
5. Scratch marks on the silver beads between the glass panes.
6. Windows do not close properly.
7. Rear dining room door does not close properly & when it is shut closed the whole frame shakes.
8. Certs & guarantees to be issued.

Has anyone any other comments or has been thru this before with similar problems.

1. No trickle vents yet label said "Trick vent sash", replace with appropriate sashes.
2. Silver bead between glass panes are not level, rectify or replace as appropriate.
3. Broken glass to be replaced
4. Hand marks on the silver beads between the glass panes to be removed or beading/glazing to be replaced as appropriate.
5. Scratch marks on the silver beads between the glass panes, silver beads to be replaced or new glazing installed.
6. Windows do not close properly, adjust or replace as appropriate for correct draft-free and secure closing.
7. Rear dining room door does not close properly & when it is shut closed the whole frame shakes, adjust or replace as appropriate for correct draft-free and secure closing.
8. Certificates of compliance to manufacturing and installation standards & written guarantee forms to be issued, duly signed.
(9. Final payment is conditional upon the above work being completed to my satisfaction)

I took the liberty of making some changes - review and see what you think

Many thanks mathepac for that. I will review all.

Perhaps I could get an opinion on the following:

Is it possible to get a reduction for the absence of the trickle vents...& install vents to the blockwork instead. I would prefer not to do it but just want an opinion.

Finger prints are quite small but noticeable in some windows. Would you honestly ask the installer/manufacturer to remove a pane of glass and clean the silver bead. Likewise with small 10mm scratch marks on the silver beads...would you have the manufacturer remove the panes too.

Pope John 11 said:

...Am I been too...lets say "German" in this way....complaining and moaning about small little things???
Or should I expect no faults whatsoever...& expect perfect windows???

Click to expand...

Not what would we, but rather what would you....

I guarantee the bill was calculated with an exquisite degree of accuracy, why would the product and service not be subject to the same precision?

Abbica said:

...don't deal with any company that demands payment up front first, it usually means bad news. If you have already ordered the windows and paid half, demand a letter stating that they will be supplied and installed to the required standards. Once you receive this, you can pay them in full, thus, if there is a something wrong, you have a leg to stand on because they broke their contract.

Click to expand...

This is a verging on the ridiculous. The law states a product must be supplied and installed to the required standards... why would you need a letter stating this from the supplier.

Even if you have paid in full you still have recourse if the goods are not up to standard. Not every company is out to rip you off and if you apply your own distrust to the reverse situation, perhaps a company is asking for full payment upfront due to being burnt by unscrupulous customers in the past.

While I will always recommend caution, the comments above, along with many others I see on this site, seem almost based in paranoia.

I spoke to the manufacturer today and he stated that they cannot install the trickle vents in the black upvc windows.

Note the same manufacturer installed golden oak windows in my brothers house with the trickle vents.

Is this manufacturer for real. Any comments?

Would I be best to get the manufacturer to rectify all the other issues and deduct an agreed cost for the loss of the vents....and if so how much in terms of %.

Pope John 11 said:

I spoke to the manufacturer today and he stated that they cannot install the trickle vents in the black upvc windows.

Note the same manufacturer installed golden oak windows in my brothers house with the trickle vents.

Is this manufacturer for real. Any comments?

Would I be best to get the manufacturer to rectify all the other issues and deduct an agreed cost for the loss of the vents....and if so how much in terms of %.

Click to expand...

whether a window is black or white pvc shouldnt matter... i have seen plenty of trickle vents incorporated into pvc windows.

did the manufacturer know that there needed to be trickle vents incorporated???