Problem with Plumber

[Pass774]

I have had part of a plumbing job completed on my house and rang the plumber to ask him to come and finish the job (he was waiting for other work to be completed before he came back). When he originally agreed to do the job, we agreed a price for the job to include labour and materials i.e. a full price for the job.

We have paid him in full the amount agreed (although he had not finished the job we expected to be ready for him to come back sooner than was the case) and he has materials worth approx €700 belonging to us.

When we phoned to tell him we were ready for him to come back and complete, he informed us that he had already spent more time than originally expected on the job and all in, he expected to be doing 5 days additional work ( according to him he has already done 2 additional days, 3 more to complete) which he would be forced to charge us for. I told him we agreed a price for the job, not a per day rate and asked him why he had not flagged the issue before. He acknowledged that he should have but that none the less, we would have to pay for the labour costs.

He is coming around for a 'meeting' , but I feel that he agreed a price with us and is now trying to extort money from us as we are in a weak position. Does anyone have any advice as to the best way to deal with the situation?

 

[Carpenter]

Be very firm, any experienced and professional tradesman would flag any potential unforseen or additional costs well in advance and would seek the customers agreement before doing the work (afterall he wants to ensure he will be paid before he does the work). This is how all business is (or should be) conducted- no one writes a blank cheque.

Some important elements to rmemeber when facing a tough meeting/ conversation:

1. What is your expected outcome-what do you want?

2. State the facts- don't make assumptions, stick to the facts and the items in question.

3. Use the word I instead of you- i.e. " I am disappointed/ angry.." as opposed to " You did this/ make me angry" etc. Avoid blame.

4. Stay on track, don't allow the other person (or yourself) to wander off on a tangent.

5. Agree on course of action/ remedial action required. What can be done differently next time.


Ultimately your plumber made a mistake in not bringing the matter to your attention before proceeding with "additional work". However your position is weak in that he can simply walk away and leave your job incomplete- you have no hold over him other than legal recourse presumably.

 

[OhPinchy]

Anyone reading this should take it as a lesson - never, EVER pay a tradesman (or anyone for that matter) until the job is fully completed to your satisfaction. Ignore all the petty justifications for it 'I've to buy a present for my sick granny', 'dont you trust me?'. I learnt this lesson the hardway like you - you won't make it a second time.

But that's whats done, best thing you can do now is to be as forceful as possible, much like Carpenter suggested. However, people often lose their cool in these situations, so don't get abusive or raise your voice in any way - this guy is probably looking for a justification for him to up sticks and leave on the supposed moral high ground.

Point out to him again that a fixed price is a fixed price for a reason and thats the risk he took when he agreed to it. This is either down to him working slower than expected or not being competent enough to plan a job properly. Point out that if he had quoted you the revised total from the start you would not have gone with him so you think this is not an acceptable way to do business.

Do you have a receipt for what you paid him? This would put you in a stronger position.

What work has he done to date and what is left to do, and how much have you paid so far and how much extra is he looking for? People here can probably give you an idea if he's in the right ballpark so you'll know if he's taking the mick or did he genuinely under estimate it.

 

[jhegarty]

did you get a vat receipt when you paid him ?... if not might be time to ask for one....

strange how the word vat can change someones mind...

 

[DOBBER22]

did you get a vat receipt when you paid him ?... if not might be time to ask for one....

strange how the word vat can change someones mind...

Heh heh heh indeed a cunning plan

 

[Pass774]

He still has to put on our rads and get the system up and running, another plumber I know(who wasnt available at the time to do the job) reckons that there are approx 2.5 days work left to do.

While we didnt get a receipt from him, I did pay by cheque so I do have evidence that he recieved the money.

The thing that really annoys me is that we agreed a very reasonable price for the job which we were very happy with and even if it had only taken him 2 days, I would still have paid the agreed price as that was the understanding we had. I have a feeling that this was his plan all along, agreeing a reasonable price in the beginning and making his money out of us when we were in a weakened position. He's looking for an additional 25% of the overall price but is 'prepared to meet us half way'! He says he has already done more hours that estimated, but (money aside) I have no way to verify this so I think I would be very foolish to take his word for it. My opinion would be that even if he did genuinely underestimate the time (and with many years in the business I would be surprised at that) that was his error, which I should not be penalised for.

I doubt he is paying VAT as he said he would be 'absorbing' that so if all comes to all I will play that card.

 

[OhPinchy]

So he's looking to meet you half way on 25% - i.e. 12.5%? Yep pipe up with a 'oh, by the way, you must have forgotten to give me a VAT receipt when I paid you, can I have it now please?' and I'd bet he'll quiet down cos thats 13.5% he'd be losing right there, net result a 1% loss to him. Of course, he may well be an upstanding tradesman who got this wrong and would be paying the VAT either way, but an upstanding tradesman knows that a fixed price is a fixed price so would not be playing these games.

Bottom line is you wouldn't be getting any of this if you hadn't paid him before the job is finished...I've seen so many people in construction change their attitude to a job once they get paid for it: yesterday they were eager to get it done as well as possible, today they feel as if theyre doing you a favour and suddenly have a million and one other jobs to do first.

What exactly has he done so far - has he first fixed the rads, cos it sounds to me like he's out by a mile on his estimates? Did he have to run in the pipes feeding the rads, and what access did he have to do this (i.e. did he have to chase into concrete or were there open ceilings or floorboards he could work with)? Can he name one thing about your house or requirements that was not apparent at quote time which impacted his ability to deliver on schedule? For example, if he said 'jaysus I thought your walls were stud partition but they're all solid concrete blocks so I've had to chase out everything and its really cost me time' I'd be more inclined to meet him half way. However, I expect that yours is a case of the plumber thinking in his head that you've been stupid enough to pay him once when you shouldn't so you might do so again. If he can't name any reasonable unforeseen obstacle that can justify his overrun I'd point out to him that its clearly unacceptable to ask you to pay for his error in judgement, and failing that I'd play the VAT card.