prime time aerlingus v ryanair

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Breaker

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I have lost any small respect for Jim Power I might have had after watching prime time. How he can say that Ryanair would not abuse a monopoly position, if they take aer lingus over is beyond me. He is either extremely naive and/or ignorant or biased in some way. It is really irritating me how this big shot "learned" individual can have such a view.

The only reason Ryanair offer low fares on routes is because of existing competition. If competition ends, low fares will end. The consumer will pay more if Ryanair have a monopoly on flights in/out of Dublin airport.
 
And Aer Lingus performed admirably when they had a monopoly...
 
rmelly said:
And Aer Lingus performed admirably when they had a monopoly...
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Aer Lingus had a monopoly and charged high fares. Ryanair will do the same if they have a monopoly. Competition needs to be maintained for the benefit of the consumer.
 
I wonder do RTE have an old video clip of MOL spouting, sorry declaring how when Ryanair came into the market that they swept away Aer Lingus's monoply and saved us all from paying high air fares. They did, but now he only wants to bring that monoply back, but on his terms. Thanks Micheal, but no thanks.
 
I have flown with Aer Lingus twice in the last year. Give me Ryan Air any day.
Aer Lingus service & manner have turned into Ryan Aie but their prices hav't. At least with Ryan air you know you get what you paid for.
 
colm said:
I have flown with Aer Lingus twice in the last year. Give me Ryan Air any day.
Aer Lingus service & manner have turned into Ryan Aie but their prices hav't. At least with Ryan air you know you get what you paid for.
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At least you have a choice. I have a choice, too. and I choose not to use Ryanair.

But the question raised by Breaker was about how things might be if Ryanair had a monopoly. My answer is that
1. It would not be a true monopoly, as (a) there is some scope for competitors to enter the market and (b) consumers have alternatives. But there would be overwhelming market dominance.
2. Disregard the MOL media show (at which he is a master): Ryanair is not a consumer advocate or a public service provider or particularly patriotic. Ryanair is profit-driven, and O'Leary's obligation is to his shareholders, and to put any other consideration ahead of that would be a deriliction of duty. If raising fares, openly or by stealth, increased profits, then O'Leary would have to do it: that's his job. He might shed crocodile tears and blame DAA, but we should be wise to his tricks by now -- should be.
 
Breaker said:
I have lost any small respect for Jim Power I might have had after watching prime time. How he can say that Ryanair would not abuse a monopoly position,
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To be fair to Mr Power thats not exactly what he said.

His point was that to discuss it as a monopoly or use this as a means for not going ahead with the takeover is wrong in this instance on the basis that Aer Lingus used their monopoly position for years when they could and they cant now use it as a reason not to go forward. He also felt that both already had a monopoloy on the routes they work on as they dont complete like for like on most routes.
 
I agree competition is needed. But I also think MOL is right when he says Ael Lingus is dying. They have tried to be a budget carrier & have failed terribly. Now they are neither. If I want cheap flights I fly Ryan Air if I want comfort I will fly Virgin or another quality carrier. I can't see any reason why I would choose air lingus (Unless the destination leaves me no choice) But if Aer Lingus dies a natural death wont Ryan Air still have the Monopoly. At present he is securing jobs (& even creating more) something most employees would be delighted with in the current climate.
If Ryan Air do increase prices in a monopoly situation they will simply be repeating the past mistakes of Aer Lingus & create a gap in the market for someone else.
 
When Ryanair bid for Aer Lingus two years ago they said they would cut 1000 jobs. Now they are saying they will create 1000 jobs. The question is where. Very likely not in Ireland and what sort of jobs. Would you only get paid when you actually worked as Prime Time outlined last night.

One only has to look at Buzz Airlines to see what Ryanair did there. Ryanair's reputation as an employer leaves a lot to be desired.
 

Any company will use a monopoly position to make super profits as aer lingus did back then and ryanair will do if they take aer lingus over. 2 wrongs do not make a right. And i dont see how aer lingus moving forward is to be taken over by ryanair.

also jim power did say something along the lines "there is nothing to suggest ryanair takes advantage of a monopolys by charging higher fares on routes with no competition". this is total nonsense. you can guarantee ryanair yields are an awful lot higher on routes with no competiton than on those with competition.
 
colm said:
I can't see any reason why I would choose air lingus (Unless the destination leaves me no choice)
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well exactly. and you want have a choice if Ryanair operate 90% of the flights out of Dublin.

colm said:
But if Aer Lingus dies a natural death wont Ryan Air still have the Monopoly.
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yes that will happen if aer lingus dies. i dont believe they will. They have done well to compete against ryanair so far and I think sean coyle will get the airline in order. Why do you think MOL wants them out of the picture so much?!

colm said:
If Ryan Air do increase prices in a monopoly situation they will simply be repeating the past mistakes of Aer Lingus & create a gap in the market for someone else.
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yes, but Ryanair will charge high fares for as long as they can get away with. In the meantime we pay high fares for years while waiting for other large carriers to decide whether to risk investing big money and competing against a very dominant player (with 90%+ of Dublin airport slots) and a very aggressive defense strategy. anyone remember when GO tried to compete against Ryanair in Dublin? Where are they now?
 
People who argue for and against a Ryanair takeover of Aer Lingus often present a very simplistic view the deal and its implications, I'm sorry to say that this is the case in the thread.

Yes Aer Lingus fares in the past were high when they were a monopoly but they provided a service back then that was 100 times better than the service they provide today. Comparisons between the Aer Lingus of the 1980s with the Aer Lingus of today are ludicrous. Remember hot meals on 1 hour flights? free alcohol? business class seats? courteous flight attendants?, all perks of paying higher fares. If I pay a higher fare I expect a better class of service. If people here think Ryanair would get away with raising fares but keeping the current service then they really must have their heads in the sand. If Ryanair did this then the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language would surely fall out of their business in no time at all.

Ryanairs intentions are obvious. They want to rebuild Aer Lingus, re-instate business class on intra-Europe flights and offer a two tier product. Right now AL is a one-tier product company with a mickey mouse trans-atlantic business class service. IF M. O' Leary wants to extract money out of people then it would be better if he probably extracted out of those that have it, those that would be willing to pay more for a better business class service.

Finally I often feel that some of the ire directed towards Ryanair is more often than not a personal attack on MOL. Why?
 
I agree with a lot of what you say majik.

My first flight with Aer Lingus was back in 1976. Dublin to London cost £145 - one way. That was the equivalent of my months wages at the time !
Yes, I got a sandwich & a drink but was it worth that ?

The other question is if people would prefer to see one large Irish airline or Ryanair plus Aer Lingus owned by perhaps Lufthansa or KLM ?
It's becoming increasingly obvious that Aer Lingus is not going to survive on its own.
 
If you look at the routes that Ryanair are sole operators of. You can still get flights for 40 or 50 euro. Now they have a monopoly on these routes so whay don't they charge high price for them?

The Ryanair model is based on volume and also based on link selling i.e hits to their site, adverising, car rental, sky shopping, hotels, food, scratch cards. they won't get volume by charging high prices. Ryanair would put themselves out of business if they began to charge high prices.
 
 
Niallers said:
... The Ryanair model is based on volume and also based on link selling i.e hits to their site, adverising, car rental, sky shopping, hotels, food, scratch cards...
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Other key components of the RyanAir model are - no unions, no pay negotiations or agreements, poorer pay and conditions for cabin staff than AerLingus (RTE Prime Time), retention of the taxes attached to unused fares (or hitting you with an equivalent service charge if you look for a refund), discounts (or "hello money") from regional airports, etc. MOL has pushed the envelope in order to retain as much revenue as possible within the organisation. In this he has been spectacularly successful (forward oil and currency exchange contracts notwithstanding).

I believe he can turn AerLingus around, that doesn't mean I want him to, but who else is in the queue for the job?
 
majik said:
... Finally I often feel that some of the ire directed towards Ryanair is more often than not a personal attack on MOL. Why?
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O'Leary copied the model he operates RyanAir to largely from Southwest Airlines, the original of the species, and mimiced the publicity stunts and aggressive marketing that its then CEO and founder Herb Kelleher staged. Kelleher and Southwest became synonymous in the minds of the US travelling public and thus if Mick were to rebrand as O'LearyAir, I doubt if anyone would notice much.

Mick did as good a job as AJF O'Reilly did with Heinz or Maurice Pratt with Quinnsworth, or even Big Ben when he was still "Dunnes Stores" by linking brand and persona seamlessly (at least I think he did), so Mick is RyanAir and RyanAir is Mick.
 
When Aer Lingus had a monopoly is was a State run airline. The State controlled it and drew profits from it.
 
Despite the Ryanair mantra about lower air fares, Ryanair's objective is to maximise profits. It does this through a combination of low costs (salaries, staff numbers, elimination of any "frills" etc) and passenger volumes. I am no economist, but is Jim Power saying that if Ryanair had a total (or virtual total) monolopy out of Ireland that they would not use that power (sic) to maximise profit? I just don't believe it.
Aer Lingus (which has served the State well, despite its many flaws) at least acts as a buffer against the potential of an outright Ryanair monolopy. Surely even an economist such as Jim Power accepts that it is competition that keeps prices down (rather than an altruistic MO'L)
 
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