Potential dispute over car not mentioned in will

B

BobRoberts

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This is a ridiculous situation brought about by my irrational narcissistic mother.

She has always been difficult, but has gotten worse since my father died.

She does not drive, but is fairly active for her age, and lives about 5 miles from a little town. There is a bus on her doorstep, and she has friends who can give her lifts.

My father, before he died, said I could have his car. I only passed my test last February and did not have a car when he died in in July last year.

My mother bizarrely has it in her head that friends will be more likely to give her lifts if she owned a car, rather than in their own car. She has talked about how sometimes it is inconvenient for them to give her a lift, but is incapable of saying when it would be inconvenient to give her a lift in their car, but somehow would be convenient to give her a lift in their car.

Not to mention the expense - she would have to pay for the tax, insurance and upkeep of the car. Or, if she is worried about people using petrol, just give them some money or a thank you gift once in a while.

In every practical sense, it makes no sense for an 80 yr old woman to own a car, just for the reasons given.

So I am wondering where I might stand legally - the car is now in my name, and I am paying the tax, insurance etc. But in her mind I have "robbed her of everything". And I guess, I am a little wary that legally, if not practically, that may have merit. If the car wasn't specified to go to someone else, it would reasonably be included in the "everything" that would be left to her.

Any advice or comment would be very welcome.

Thank you.
 
Brilliant - why didn't I think of that. I'll just nip out in the garden and pick some money of the tree.
 
+ 1 to Bronte's comment.

Not worth the hassle of falling out. Park the car in her drive and get another car.
 
BobRoberts said:
Brilliant - why didn't I think of that. I'll just nip out in the garden and pick some money of the tree.
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You asked for advice/comments ... no need to be snide about it.

Also
BobRoberts said:
irrational narcissistic mother
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says a lot about your view on the matter.

Why post looking for help if you come with your mind closed off to help/suggestions?

You didn't have your own car previously and you got on fine without it. Save up and get your own that hasn't issues attached to it.

Yes your mother can argue you stole it from the estate ... after all you have no proof that you were promised it.
 
Why don't you borrow the money from a credit union? Or use your savings? Or get a car loan from a garage.

You've one parent left why does she have to rely on friends for lifts if you have the use of a car?
 
PaddyBloggit said:
You asked for advice/comments ... no need to be snide about it.
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I apologise - I was just looking for more practical advice on the legal position. Me buying a car may be a solution on paper, but seemed impractical and a bit flippant.

Bronte said:
Why don't you borrow the money from a credit union? Or use your savings? Or get a car loan from a garage.

You've one parent left why does she have to rely on friends for lifts if you have the use of a car?
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Because the whole idea of her owning a car is entirely ludicrous and impractical, and genuinely not in her best interests. Surely you don't think that her owning a car, paying the tax, national insurance and all other related expenses are worth it just so that people can give her lifts from her village 5 miles into the local town, in that car, rather than their own car? It makes no practical or financial sense whatsoever. She lives near the coast, in a remote part of rainy Scotland. I can virtually guarantee the car would hardly ever be used, and end up needing a lot of maintenance such as replacement brake pads that would rust pretty quickly with the car just sitting there for long periods. (No, there's no garage.)

Because my getting into unnecessary debt for those completely impractical reasons is absurd.

Gordon Gekko said:
Why don't you compromise whereby you have the car and you give her the lifts, thus avoiding her having to rely on others?
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Obviously if I could, I would. Not sure why the assumption seems to be that I could give her lifts, but am choosing not to. I live 600 miles away.

And even then, if I was a typical person, with a 9-5 job, and she typically goes into town mid morning or afternoon, I wouldn't be able to anyway.

All I can do is if you knew the crap myself and my wife have had to put up with over the years you'd maybe understand a bit more. I know that's just my side, but trust me - I'm not the bad guy in all of this.
 
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Why don't you compromise whereby you have the car and you give her the lifts, thus avoiding her having to rely on others?
 
OP appears to be in the UK and probably doesn't realise that this is an Irish site.

Regardless, advice is the same.

You have two choices OP:

Keep the car and run it (you say it's in your name) and deal with the consequences of a family fallout etc.

or

Give the car back and let her deal with the associated problems (make sure your name isn't connected with its ownership if you do)
 
It's not your business if she chooses to pay tax and insurance and let's it rot.

I imagine she has sentimental attachment to the car. Leave her be. I can well see why she considers you've robbed her taking the car away. Did you ask her?

You don't sound very respectful of your elderly mother. If she's making your life hell 600 miles away she must be some woman.
 
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BobRoberts said:
This is a ridiculous situation brought about by my irrational narcissistic mother.

She has always been difficult, but has gotten worse since my father died.

She does not drive, but is fairly active for her age, and lives about 5 miles from a little town. There is a bus on her doorstep, and she has friends who can give her lifts.

My father, before he died, said I could have his car. I only passed my test last February and did not have a car when he died in in July last year.

My mother bizarrely has it in her head that friends will be more likely to give her lifts if she owned a car, rather than in their own car. She has talked about how sometimes it is inconvenient for them to give her a lift, but is incapable of saying when it would be inconvenient to give her a lift in their car, but somehow would be convenient to give her a lift in their car.

Not to mention the expense - she would have to pay for the tax, insurance and upkeep of the car. Or, if she is worried about people using petrol, just give them some money or a thank you gift once in a while.

In every practical sense, it makes no sense for an 80 yr old woman to own a car, just for the reasons given.

So I am wondering where I might stand legally - the car is now in my name, and I am paying the tax, insurance etc. But in her mind I have "robbed her of everything". And I guess, I am a little wary that legally, if not practically, that may have merit. If the car wasn't specified to go to someone else, it would reasonably be included in the "everything" that would be left to her.

Any advice or comment would be very welcome.

Thank you.
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The car is part of the estate even though not specifically mentioned in the will. For you to take possession without permission of the estate beneficiary is a high handed.
Having said that your mother is being impractical but she is 80 and bereaved
 
I am guessing before he died your Dad signed ownership of the car over to you. So as you say legally the car is yours. However in her mind your Mum thought the car was hers and your Dads before he died so in her mind it was hers to dispose of after your Dads death as she saw fit.

So you have 2 options

(1). Take the car and if your Mum kicks up a fuss be prepared to demonstrate ownership all the way to court, and obviously have a massive falling out with your Mum. The drama will never end.

(2). Legally sign ownership of the car over to your Mum, and park it at her house, give her the keys and never mention it again. Even if it rusts on its flat wheels until the day she dies. Buy yourself a very cheap alternative until you can save up for a better car. Live a drama free, if poorer life.

Whether, legally or morally right or wrong I recommend going with option 2.
 
A lot of nonsense posted.

If OP has the vehicle registered in his name on the tax document, that is not proof of ownership. Read either the Irish or UK tax registration document where it states "possession of this document is not proof of ownership."

To prove beneficial ownership of the car the OP must have an invoice, a bill of sale or a will which has gone through probate naming him as the beneficial owner.

If the car isn't mentioned in the will and wasn't sold to him prior his father's death, then the car is now his mother's property, irrespective of tax or insurance documents.

Guess all you like folks, but what's written is what counts and the OP is light on documented detail. What his father INTENDED to do or SAID he would do isn't worth a candle if he took no actions to document his wishes in relation to the car.
 
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Its not worth falling out with your mum over a car? Won't you inherit her house one day - a lot more value than a car.

You only get one mum!
 
Agree with mathepac, it's quite clear the OP does not own this car regardless of whether they think this is fair or logical. I think it's terribly sad that the relationship between a son and his 80 year old mother has broken down to such a point that he refers to her as he has on here. As Vanessa said, she is 80 and bereaved and her son lives 600 miles away. I think it says something for her that at least her friends/neighbours are looking out for her.
 
My thoughts, for what it's worth (and after reading between the lines on all the OPs posts)

It's not about the car, or at least, the car is the least of it.
 
Don't make an offer - do without. Swallow pride and sense-of-injustice and pass it back to her.

(Btw - you're not getting into debt for impractical reasons - you would be getting into debt for an entirely practical reason, of owing your own transport)
 
Have I got this right. Your mother won't be driving the car. She will leave it in her driveway until someone calls to her home to drive her in her car to town?
 
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