Poland: advice on investing in apartments in Krakow?

moneypenny

Registered User
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32
Hi there,

does anyone have advice on investing in apartments in krakow? 1-2 bed ~ 70-80K. Have i missed the boat on this? any pitfalls?

many thanks..
 
Re: Poland

One thing to watch out for is the finish provided. A standard Polish finish would just be the shell. Need to ensure you are getting kitchen, bathroom, plastered walls etc.

Also if you want to find out about rental, ignore the agents. They will tell you the rent is double what you would actually get. Approach it from the point of view of you wanting to rent a polish apartment and you'll find out the real prices.
 
Re: Poland

Agree with all the above.

Take out a forward option on the currency when the polish elections come. Should save u a few percent and ensure hedging conditions.

Type fx trading PLN into google to get results.

Im already there in posh part of warsaw it has ran handsomely this year.

75%-100% up in 1 year 2-3 months. In process of remortgaging. This can be attributed however to the interest rate cuts in poland of 1.75% (went up .5 of a percent after the euro came around). .5 percent on a 300k gaf is 50k period.

Rents are going up in warsaw when i was there pre accession the same apartment was 20% cheaper to rent than it is now.

Websites of interest:

Business:
[broken link removed]


Realestate:
http://www.oferty.net/ possibly the daft.ie of poland.

Any questions shout if u need good legal or good contacts with banks no probs private message me.
 
Re: Poland

Ecstatic
Was doing searches on Poland and found the original thread on "Buying/Investing in Poland" . Included was a debate between two posters on what rent was expected in Warsaw. Initially your agent had mentioned 900 euro but you later mentioned 520 to 600 euro. Just interested in whether the selling agent was also the letting agent , and did he try to explain this difference by blaming the market, or did you change to a different letting agent who had more interest in letting the property than just the initial sales commission ? Also congratulations on the appreciation in 15 months, but did you value it against other properties recently sold or is it a valuation by the selling/letting agent. Btw , not trying to pour cold water on your gains , just trying to learn more about working with foreign or Irish letting/sales agents.
 
Re: Poland

Hi deecide,

Absolutly i do like a good converse.

Firstly the selling agent was not the vendor. I will not deal with selling agents i will only deal direct with the builder. Selling agents in warsaw command i have heard 3-7% commision after i heard this i said thanks but no thanks. Over there you can deal direct without selling agents but obviously you will need to be a decent negotiator.

900 euro but you later mentioned 520 to 600 euro.

This is true the agent was incorrect and making up figures.
The price when i was originally there i estimated for rental was around 2K zlotys which works out as around 500-520 euros. Id now estimate the real rental as been 2400k zlotys per month €600.

Yes if you look at the sites listed at http://www.oferty.net/ you will see the price increase.

I am unaware of any bank in the world who will provide an overestimate on the value of a property. This is a valuation by the bankers valuer. Its supposed to be bi-partisan and not too have any flagrant misguided truths.

To explain if you goto www.oanda.com and check out the exchange rates you will see that prior to EU entry the Zloty traded at 4.7 against the euro.
Now it trades close to 4.0 on the euro this is in and around 20% immediate
gain.

Deecide i am unaware if you read how commercial property valuations are come too and the effect of monetary interest rate cuts on property prices. However if you do you will understand that a .5% cut on a 300K mortgage in fact means that the property is worth 350k. This is basic.

There have been cuts of 1.75% on that market in the last year with an increase of .5% 1 year ago.

I would suggest airing on the side of caution when it comes to what the agent is going to tell you this is true for every real estate agent internationally and not just confined to Poland.

I have heard that not everywhere in Poland - warsaw went up last year. Its a simple case of seeing what is good and what is not.

Irish prices did 12% last year however the 4-5 bed homes in stepaside alone did 25%. Money can be made anywhere its just a matter of how risk tolerant you are.

Deecide we are in the european market as part of this the accession countries must abide by VAT laws etc. VAT in europe state that people must have VAT on apartments (hidden in building and land prices). These changes have not come into effect in Poland and these accession countries and are a significant reason as to why there has been such appreciation.

If i had been 6 months earlier i could have bought the same APT for 40% less. There was a rush to avoid a new 7% tax implemented on all new builds. Prices are obviously going to go up in line with government policies. This has happened before and will happen again.

Take something as simple as a box of cigarrettes the polish government is instructed to produce levies of 7-8% a year on fags to align themselves with europe.

I would tell you the apartment and road its in and you can check but to be frank its none of your business and i keep my business to be my own business. Doing so would only lead to accusations that i have an interest in this. I do have an interest but its solely a personal one.

Remember Poland had depressed property prices for years prior to accession. Also remember prior to accession there was 21% unemployment and now it is 17.5%. There is also a larger population in the greater warsaw area and anyone who thinks this will not get bigger is insane.

Dig your own info and see who is building in warsaw.

If it was me thinking of going to eastern europe again i will be following http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10002519.shtml and the FDI inflow chart based on per capita czech republic is the place to be in.

Im not responding to any more polish treads PM me instead. Im bored of having to feedback when people do not research there own info before posting
 
Re: Poland

Having said that about CZE i like high interest rates so hungary still has some way to go.
CZE - HUNGARY or both for hedged position
 
Re: Poland

Ecstatic

I understand how the exchange rate effected your property price but I wouldn't be as clued in as you with regard to the basic commercial property valuations. I would have just looked on an interest rate cut as leaving your property cheaper to purchase and helping prices gradually rise. I'd probably have looked at recent sale prices of nearby ,similiar properties for a fairly accurate valuation. The drop in unemployment figures from 21% to 17.5% was possibly aided by the movement of Polish nationals to other countries to seek work after accession. Either way it will still be less of a drain on the economy. Have used the finfacts website before and find it packed with information. No obligation to reply if you're bored. Will decline the PM offer as its good to sometimes get a variety of views. Cheers anyway.
 
Re: Poland

Hi moneypenny,
i've being looking in Krakow for a couple of weeks to see if it is a worthwhile investment. I think you need to be very careful, i beleive alot of the apartments are now overpriced when compared to the rental return that you could get form them. I would definetly be sceptical of the rates of return quoted by agents.

the amount of flats for rent is quite high at the moment so it is not easy to rent a place either. ( this i have found out by a Polish friend on the ground)

A possibility that i am looking into now is buying a
flat that can be renovated, it should cost a lot less, but unfortunately it will provide me with extra hassle.

if you need any more info, let us know, i do still think there is oppurtunities in krakow you just need to be careful, and dont neccessarily follow the herd.
I hope i spot somethin that suits myself soon,
 
Re: Poland

Regarding Krakow purchases. Prices vary greatly depending on location. Anywhere around the Rynek Glowny (Old Town Square) expect to pay 8000 to 10000 PLN per metre squared.

Rents are very good if you let to a holiday let company like Old Town Apartments approx. 1500 PLN per month on a 250000 PLN apartment. They insure contents and clean regularly etc. - see www.warsawshotel.com - It's also quite diff to deal with some Polish real estate agents - lang. barrier and all. Have a look at www.property-krakow.com contact is Robert Watkins. If planning a visit he'll line up apartments within your brief - charges a fee and gets a cut on the sale but worth it if you plan on viewing many properties when you are there.

Also open a bank account there on your first visit so you can transfer funds if you decide to buy.

By the way Aer lingus flying direct fron Sept and I believe Malev also.
 
Re: Poland

Hi Folks
Im heading to Krakow in 2 weeks and am looking to know if anyone can guide me to anywhere to find information on reputable developers.

Id prefer not to go through real estate agents!

*I have been guided to the suburbs by a polish colleague as there is a lot more available for <€80k although I have been advised to buy in the city so as to attract better rent.

Although I dont want to look at buying miles outside krakow I am almost of the opinion that this is where to invest as it will be easier to sell to a local and foreign buyers are probably pricing locals out of the city

Any opinions?
 
Re: Poland

hi,
a friends girlfriend runs this site and she's from Krakow worth a look or even a phone call...
www.krakow4u.com.pl
let me know how you get on,i don't want to be unfairly plugging something that doesn't work
 
Hi guys,

Looking to invest in Krakow also. Have not bought anything yet so I cannot give any advice based on a successful experience.

I am dealiong with a company that was recommended to me [broken link removed].

Good for me because its principles are an Irish person and a local Polish person. for me it increases the comfort factor somewhat as I have at least ben able to check out the credentials of the Irish person.

I would say wherever you are investing it is important to visit the country
 
Hi,
I am considering buying an investment property in Poland. I have heard that most properties are Co-Operative holdings as opposed to Lease-Hold or Free-Hold.

Does anyone know what exactly a Co-Operative holding is and what the advantages / disadvanges of buying one may be??

Cheers,
K.
 
Hi,

Does anyone know any good rental agents in Warsaw or Krakow? I did a Google search but didb't find anything too concrete-not sure if i am missing something?