Hi hoping you can advise. Legally separated, order allows me stay in house until children no longer dependent 7yrs approx then house is to be sold. Ex to get share of sale proceeds, has not liaised in full with mortgage lender and only doing so now following repossession notice and because I have sought a return to court to have Judicial order relooked at, as it is simply not working. Ex pays nothing towards mortgage and has to pay nominal maintenance of e50 pm for two children which he plays catch up with all the time. He contributes nothing else towards anything. Bank have issued repossession proceedings. Arrears of e20k on mortgage. Ex has pension of e60k which he can draw but refuses to. Submitted new financial statement now bank have offered voluntary surrender as an option, proceedings to continue. Mortgage e160k value e280 approx. I receive MIS. Bank say mortgage not sustainable on my income alone....Invalidity Pension. I pay everything associated i.e house insurance, mortgage protection insurance and life insurance for both me and ex spouse. My question is if I voluntary surrender will bank seek highest sale price on open market? and do I have any say in any offers made? If I agree to this route and hand back the keys will I receive rent allowance? Any other suggestions please?
Please advise: Voluntary Surrender & Positive Equity
- Thread starter Tigger
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Brendan Burgess
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To get comprehensive advice, you will need to provide the following information:
Information required for mortgage arrears and negative equity questions
Information required for mortgage arrears and negative equity questions
Gerry Canning
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Tigger.
Before you do anything , get good advice from an Insolvency Practitioner.
I would be slow to do Voluntary Surrender without good advice.
There are umpteen good threads on AAM about Mortgage Problems , take a read.
Brendan Burgess
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Gerry
Her posts suggests that she is well solvent.
Brendan
Her posts suggests that she is well solvent.
Brendan
Hi guys sorry for late replies, hope your all safe in this cruel weather.
My mortgage is e160k arrears of e23k and I would hope if I were to sell the house myself to get about 280/300k. Can anyone suggest where I can get advice thats free...I don`t have any spare money after paying the bills. I did enquire about a PIA but was told because there is positive equity in the house that I would not qualify.
My income is:
Invalidity Pension of e243 includes fuel allowance
Child benefit x two children of e260
Household benefit package e35.55
MIS e88.60
Sporadic maintenance for two children x e25 each....e50 per month
Main outgoings:
Mortgage e125pw........e541.67pm Repayments should be about e950pm deemed unsustainable on my income alone. I`m told I am paying just above the interest. Bank suggested last week that paying e650 pm may be offered but this did not happen. Only option offered is voluntary surrender and proceedings will continue.
Mortgage protection insurance e43.85
Buildings & contents insurance e57.27
My life policy e42.60
Ex life policy e44.91
Car insurance e32.05
Credit card on an agreed arrangement of a reducing balance e5pw no interest or charges being added...balance e1300
Credit union e5pw. Had e4500 shares they informed me they were transferring these off loan, I had no say. Balance now e8500 approx
Food, heat, car tax, clothes etc etc are paid depending on whats left
Debating on asking bank if they will allow me sell the house or to just give them the keys. Stress of it all is affecting my health and I am asking myself why I am killing myself to line the pocket of an ex who does not care less and does nothing to support the situation. Hand over keys....less stress less proceeds. See myself hopefully get more from sale but more ongoing stress and I have to share the proceeds.
Thanks guys any advice would be appreciated.
My mortgage is e160k arrears of e23k and I would hope if I were to sell the house myself to get about 280/300k. Can anyone suggest where I can get advice thats free...I don`t have any spare money after paying the bills. I did enquire about a PIA but was told because there is positive equity in the house that I would not qualify.
My income is:
Invalidity Pension of e243 includes fuel allowance
Child benefit x two children of e260
Household benefit package e35.55
MIS e88.60
Sporadic maintenance for two children x e25 each....e50 per month
Main outgoings:
Mortgage e125pw........e541.67pm Repayments should be about e950pm deemed unsustainable on my income alone. I`m told I am paying just above the interest. Bank suggested last week that paying e650 pm may be offered but this did not happen. Only option offered is voluntary surrender and proceedings will continue.
Mortgage protection insurance e43.85
Buildings & contents insurance e57.27
My life policy e42.60
Ex life policy e44.91
Car insurance e32.05
Credit card on an agreed arrangement of a reducing balance e5pw no interest or charges being added...balance e1300
Credit union e5pw. Had e4500 shares they informed me they were transferring these off loan, I had no say. Balance now e8500 approx
Food, heat, car tax, clothes etc etc are paid depending on whats left
Debating on asking bank if they will allow me sell the house or to just give them the keys. Stress of it all is affecting my health and I am asking myself why I am killing myself to line the pocket of an ex who does not care less and does nothing to support the situation. Hand over keys....less stress less proceeds. See myself hopefully get more from sale but more ongoing stress and I have to share the proceeds.
Thanks guys any advice would be appreciated.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 53,718
This is primarily a legal question. Was there a court order ordering your ex to contribute towards the mortgage?
With a mortgage of €160k @4.5% , the interest should be costing you €7,200 a year or around €600 a month.
It seems that your mortgage is unsustainable if he does not contribute. However, you won't be able to rent anything similar either. So you have to try to stay in your house.
If you sell your house, where would you live?
Which lender is it?
Check out this Key Post
What to do if you get a letter saying your mortgage is unsustainable
I think that keeping your house is your priority, so you will have to take a chance and cancel these insurances. That makes another €186 a month available. The risk of losing your home is a clear and present likelihood while the risk of fire or death, is less likely.
As you have plenty of equity and as you have standard variable rate mortgage, this loan is profitable for the bank and very low risk.
I think you should propose going on interest only for 7 years until the children are no longer dependent and then selling the house and paying off the mortgage.
With a mortgage of €160k @4.5% , the interest should be costing you €7,200 a year or around €600 a month.
It seems that your mortgage is unsustainable if he does not contribute. However, you won't be able to rent anything similar either. So you have to try to stay in your house.
If you sell your house, where would you live?
Which lender is it?
Check out this Key Post
What to do if you get a letter saying your mortgage is unsustainable
I think that keeping your house is your priority, so you will have to take a chance and cancel these insurances. That makes another €186 a month available. The risk of losing your home is a clear and present likelihood while the risk of fire or death, is less likely.
As you have plenty of equity and as you have standard variable rate mortgage, this loan is profitable for the bank and very low risk.
I think you should propose going on interest only for 7 years until the children are no longer dependent and then selling the house and paying off the mortgage.
No the order only allowed for me to stay in the home with the children until they are no longer dependent. I was asked by the Judge if I could continue to pay what I was paying i.e. MIS which I confirmed I would as long as I was in receipt of it. Ex feels he has no obligation to this mortgage now being I was given sole living rights.......he don`t listen to the fact he is a co borrower but reality is he just wants me to sink and does not care if his share of the equity sinks with me.
Re insurance am I not legally obliged to have buildings, house and mortgage protection insurance when I have a mortgage. On a side note my insurers phoned me last week to tell me I have the house under insured and I need to increase this. My insurance is a deal my mortgage company where offering in conjunction with an insurance company and the price was competitive. My lenders want me to up the insurance on a house they want to kick me out of.......crazy, told them where to go!!!!
Re going on interest only for 7 years I have suggested this, no joy they wont explore any other options except the one offered. I have also offered to pay an additional e120 pm they wouldn`t entertain that either. They claim they would be leaving me too little to live off going by what they say is the minimum a family of 3 need to live. They say I cannot afford the e125pw I am paying. I`ve tried to tell them I am living and if I do not pay this MIS it will be cut...vicious circle!
I`ve no doubt the reason they want to foreclose is because there is equity and they know they will get the full mortgage cleared.
Re insurance am I not legally obliged to have buildings, house and mortgage protection insurance when I have a mortgage. On a side note my insurers phoned me last week to tell me I have the house under insured and I need to increase this. My insurance is a deal my mortgage company where offering in conjunction with an insurance company and the price was competitive. My lenders want me to up the insurance on a house they want to kick me out of.......crazy, told them where to go!!!!
Re going on interest only for 7 years I have suggested this, no joy they wont explore any other options except the one offered. I have also offered to pay an additional e120 pm they wouldn`t entertain that either. They claim they would be leaving me too little to live off going by what they say is the minimum a family of 3 need to live. They say I cannot afford the e125pw I am paying. I`ve tried to tell them I am living and if I do not pay this MIS it will be cut...vicious circle!
I`ve no doubt the reason they want to foreclose is because there is equity and they know they will get the full mortgage cleared.
LostDecade
Registered User
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In answer to your question, my understanding is that there is no legal obligation to have any of the insurances you list, but they are often a good idea (especially buildings cover)
However, in saying that...and I don't want to contradict the professionals on here, but I would have thought that trying to maintain a minimum level of Building insurance, if at all possible, would be fairly essential. Fair point that mortgage protection (what good is it doing you?) and life policies could go without any real impact, as could the contents part of your building and contents insurance. Given the equity in the house and the possible need for re-build in the event of a fire, I would thought Building insurance was essential. By only insuring the building of your home, you could reduce your €57 per month. You should also shop about, because if your mortgage provider sold you the house policy @ €57 per month, it's probably relatively expensive and you could almost certainly get a better deal elsewhere. I wouldn't know who to send you to, other than to say shop about and try comparison sites etc.
In my opinion, whilst the mortgage co may have insisted on life cover etc when you took out the mortgage, there is little they could do to stop you cancelling it at this stage. The saving of your two life policies, plus MPI and a saving on your house insurance might make things a lot more bearable and help your case with the bank.
On a different note, you may also want to look into your Mortgage Protection Insurance. If it was taken out to insure you against illness and inability to work, then why is it not paying your mortgage now? If the policy was taken out when you were working and you then became unemployed (and haven't claimed), or was taken out incorrectly from the start, then you have been insuring something that wasn't insurable and as such may be entitled to a refund for any amounts paid in error. Not know exactly what your policy covered, I can't say for sure, but in the case of a girl I used to work with, her husband (self employed Architect) closed up after the crash and had to go on the dole, he tried to claim on his mortgage protection insurance and found out he couldn't, as he had been self-employed and not an employee (his policy only covered employees). However, it also meant that the insurance company hadn't been insuring a risk, so he got a refund (several thousand euro) of all premiums paid while he was registered as self employed. Anyway, just a thought
However, in saying that...and I don't want to contradict the professionals on here, but I would have thought that trying to maintain a minimum level of Building insurance, if at all possible, would be fairly essential. Fair point that mortgage protection (what good is it doing you?) and life policies could go without any real impact, as could the contents part of your building and contents insurance. Given the equity in the house and the possible need for re-build in the event of a fire, I would thought Building insurance was essential. By only insuring the building of your home, you could reduce your €57 per month. You should also shop about, because if your mortgage provider sold you the house policy @ €57 per month, it's probably relatively expensive and you could almost certainly get a better deal elsewhere. I wouldn't know who to send you to, other than to say shop about and try comparison sites etc.
In my opinion, whilst the mortgage co may have insisted on life cover etc when you took out the mortgage, there is little they could do to stop you cancelling it at this stage. The saving of your two life policies, plus MPI and a saving on your house insurance might make things a lot more bearable and help your case with the bank.
On a different note, you may also want to look into your Mortgage Protection Insurance. If it was taken out to insure you against illness and inability to work, then why is it not paying your mortgage now? If the policy was taken out when you were working and you then became unemployed (and haven't claimed), or was taken out incorrectly from the start, then you have been insuring something that wasn't insurable and as such may be entitled to a refund for any amounts paid in error. Not know exactly what your policy covered, I can't say for sure, but in the case of a girl I used to work with, her husband (self employed Architect) closed up after the crash and had to go on the dole, he tried to claim on his mortgage protection insurance and found out he couldn't, as he had been self-employed and not an employee (his policy only covered employees). However, it also meant that the insurance company hadn't been insuring a risk, so he got a refund (several thousand euro) of all premiums paid while he was registered as self employed. Anyway, just a thought
Gerry Canning
Registered User
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Tigger ;
I pick up 2 main issues.
1. You can stay in home for 7 more years , and may have to then sell it.
(that is a war for another day) ,so suggest park it for now.
.......................................................................................
2. Bank is getting tetchy.
Whilst they may wish to (bully) you into a voluntary sale or may even threaten repossession, I cannot see that happening for these reasons.
a. You can pay interest + a little off the principle .
b. On variable rate , so Bank is making profit.
c. House is worth a lot more than the debt.
d. The argument that you don,t come inside their figures for {survival} is weak, you are obviously able to do it.
e. If you are paying interest + a bit of interest , I just cannot see any Judge granting repossession.
I Make these suggestions but I will admit to NOT being an expert, so hopefully other AAM posters can advise.
1. From what is said if you insure house for fire/storm @ rebuilding cost that is 200 euro per annum ,I think you need that.
2. Insurance on yourself ; you need some eg k100 for the next 7 years to protect the kids in case something happens you.
3. Stop other insurances.
I presume you are paying 600 per month.
As Brendan says you have to prioritise keeping the house.
From what you say if you kill off non necessary you can pay 700.
So pay 700? and keep everything in writing. Let the Bank do the running.
I think in time they may well reluctantly accept the 700.
I pick up 2 main issues.
1. You can stay in home for 7 more years , and may have to then sell it.
(that is a war for another day) ,so suggest park it for now.
.......................................................................................
2. Bank is getting tetchy.
Whilst they may wish to (bully) you into a voluntary sale or may even threaten repossession, I cannot see that happening for these reasons.
a. You can pay interest + a little off the principle .
b. On variable rate , so Bank is making profit.
c. House is worth a lot more than the debt.
d. The argument that you don,t come inside their figures for {survival} is weak, you are obviously able to do it.
e. If you are paying interest + a bit of interest , I just cannot see any Judge granting repossession.
I Make these suggestions but I will admit to NOT being an expert, so hopefully other AAM posters can advise.
1. From what is said if you insure house for fire/storm @ rebuilding cost that is 200 euro per annum ,I think you need that.
2. Insurance on yourself ; you need some eg k100 for the next 7 years to protect the kids in case something happens you.
3. Stop other insurances.
I presume you are paying 600 per month.
As Brendan says you have to prioritise keeping the house.
From what you say if you kill off non necessary you can pay 700.
So pay 700? and keep everything in writing. Let the Bank do the running.
I think in time they may well reluctantly accept the 700.
This issue has moved forward quite a bit if it is got to this stage. Gerry! Much as I admire your faith in the Court system, judges are limited as to their discretion on unsustainable mortgages. I.e. Nothing to do with positive or negative equity in the property. Sustainability test is that the borrower/s can meet a P&I repayment that will clear the facility within a reasonable term. Generally reasonable term would be defined as being prior to retirement age.
Gerry Canning
Registered User
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44 Brendan,
Faith must be relied upon!.
I suppose what I see in this case is no (big) loss to the Bank by taking interest for 7 years.
Bank has moved to ask for repossession to protect their position.
If sustainability test allows Judge to run to retirement age then in this case since property is to be sold in 7 years,customer is paying interest + some principal, maybe Judge will say it is sustainable in these unusual circumstances?
As I say I am not an expert.
Faith must be relied upon!.
I suppose what I see in this case is no (big) loss to the Bank by taking interest for 7 years.
Bank has moved to ask for repossession to protect their position.
If sustainability test allows Judge to run to retirement age then in this case since property is to be sold in 7 years,customer is paying interest + some principal, maybe Judge will say it is sustainable in these unusual circumstances?
As I say I am not an expert.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
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- 53,718
Tigger
Don't put yourself through all this hassle.
Just cancel your insurance completely.
Yes, you are taking a risk that the house may burn down or that it may be damaged again by a storm. But the reality is that if you keep paying all those insurances, you will end up losing the house anyway. The risk of uninsured damage is the lesser of two evils.
Get onto your bank and cancel the direct debit or do it online.
Brendan
Don't put yourself through all this hassle.
Just cancel your insurance completely.
Yes, you are taking a risk that the house may burn down or that it may be damaged again by a storm. But the reality is that if you keep paying all those insurances, you will end up losing the house anyway. The risk of uninsured damage is the lesser of two evils.
Get onto your bank and cancel the direct debit or do it online.
Brendan
These two don't make much sense together. The purpose of that insurance is to cover you against injury or illness affecting your ability to work.
Did you become injured/sick after you signed the insurance agreement? If so, it should be paying out. If not, it's useless and should be dropped (and possibly refunded).
I guess it's covering the ex too, but that's not much use to you (unless he is sick/injured too).
Mortgage protection is usually the cover in case you die, Repayment Protection is the other kind that pays your payments for a year if you are out of work through accident, illness or redundancy. Not sure in the OP's case which they mean as there are separate life policies too.