Plan for workers on PAYE to file tax returns

[Furze]

What is the purpose of this proposal by Revenue.
If you have rental income, do not currently have to file?

 

[ClubMan]

What proposal? A link might be helpful. Not everybody has rental income. Maybe they are planning to get PAYE workers in general to file annual returns or Form 12s as a matter of course every year (which would be a crazy move on the face of it in my opinion but I'd need to see more details).

 

[ubiquitous]

I don't think such an idea would be crazy at all - on condition that it be implemented sensibly. It makes little sense at present for PAYE employees to have absolutely no tax filing obligations, particularly when certain occupational groups seem to enjoy "nixer" income on a pretty widespread basis. As things stand, the Revenue are almost powerless for example in trying to enforce payment of tax on teachers' grinds income for example.

 

[Furze]

oops -

 

[ClubMan]

A Revenue spokesman confirmed that proposals to have PAYE taxpayers file accounts were in the works.
"What we're looking at is possibly obliging some people to make a return every couple of years but there is no question of all PAYE tax payers having to make annual returns."

Surely this is similar to the de facto situation whereby Revenue periodically ask some PAYE workers (either on foot of past history or maybe now based on profiling) to return a new Form P12?

 

[Furze]

"de facto situation" - so why is there a need for it. ?

Is there an obligation to currently file a Form P12 ?

 

[ClubMan]

"de facto situation" - so why is there a need for it. ?

That is my point.

Is there an obligation to currently file a Form P12 ?

No. Not unless they ask you or your circumstances change such that one is required in order to correct the information that they hold on you. Personally ever since the Form 12 became so long and complicated whenever my circumstances change I just use a specific form if applicable or just write to them with the details rather than filling in a 16 page form.

 

[ubiquitous]

"de facto situation" - so why is there a need for it. ?

Presumably the need arises from the fact that the Revenue depend solely on the goodwill of PAYE workers to voluntarily file tax returns if and when they in receipt of additional income. My suspicion is that large numbers of people do not do so. The Revenue probably calculate that a "compulsory tax return" system would increase compliance.

 

[ClubMan]

Presumably the need arises from the fact that the Revenue depend solely on the goodwill of PAYE workers to voluntarily file tax returns if and when they in receipt of additional income.

But that is a key tenet of their [broken link removed]:

Presumption of Honesty

You can expect

• to be treated as honest in your dealings with Revenue unless there is clear reason to believe otherwise and subject to Revenue's responsibility for ensuring compliance with tax and customs law.

We expect you

• to deal in an honest way with Revenue by returning the tax and duty which you are due to pay and seeking only those entitlements and credits to which you are due.

My suspicion is that large numbers of people do not do so.

Obviously some people don't. However I would not jump to conclusions about how large a number or proportion of the overall PAYE population or tax take this would be without some hard data from which to draw inferences.

The Revenue probably calculate that a "compulsory tax return" system would increase compliance.

Stands to reason I suppose. I just wonder if the benefits would outweigh the costs involved? With their new fancy profiling system surely they should just target those who stand out with their existing processes?

 

[ubiquitous]

With their new fancy profiling system surely they should just target those who stand out with their existing processes?

I presume one only appears on the profiling system if one files a tax return. The system will know very little about the people who don't file and who are not obliged to do so.

 

[ClubMan]

Everybody who is issued with tax credits would presumably be in their database and subject to profiling. Revenue would have quite a bit of information about them even in the absence of regular filings/returns. In fact one profiling alert might simply be lack of any unilateral changes to the information held which could be unusual since people's circumstances change over the years so one would expect them to need to update Revenue with info relevant to determining tax credits and liabilities.