People and debt

P

pinkyBear

Registered User
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1,065
Hi there,

I put this in the LOS section, because from posts on Money Make Over there are more and more people posting about their CC/ non secure loan debt as opposed to mortgage debt.

Does it not annoy anyone? As I am starting to get a wee bit frustrated about people posting because they have 50K debt, a big mortgage and living expenses.... Did these posters not apply common sence? Did they really think another credid card will solve their problems....

Then there is a suggestion - go to bank and see if the OP can go interest only on the mortgage, if I was the bank manager who the mortgage was with - I would say no.. The mortgage is not your problem it is the fact that you have racked up a debt of 50k in loans!!

I completly understand that people fall on hard times and yes, the CC is used and there can be problems down the line paying this off, my rant is not about these posters.. Hard times are hard times and my heart goes out to those posters...

P...
 
I agree. I get annoyed any time I hear someone suggesting any kind of debt forgiveness or 'NAMA for the people'. I have yet to read of or hear about a person or couple struggling financially just because of a large mortgage and negative equity - there is ALWAYS a big pile of personal debt and credit card debt. What were they doing? 20/30/40 years ago, people were delighted to just be able to buy their first house and were happy to just have a mattress and some deckchairs as furniture until they could buy stuff bit by bit. The culture of entitlement went a bit crazy here for a while for some people.
 
This thread confirms that it wasn't just the banks and government that lost the run of themselves but the whole of society.

That is why the whole of society will have to pay in the coming budget unfortunately :-(
 
What I personally find scary is that some of the money makeover threads cite large salaries (whether one or two salaries) and then when you read the breakdown LOADS of it is just servicing loans and CC debt - the mortgage repayments and groceries are small by comparison.

Even if there wasnt a recession they would be paying back these loans - was it just that credit was so easy to get that people forgot theyd have to pay it back later?
 
The_Banker said:
This thread confirms that it wasn't just the banks and government that lost the run of themselves but the whole of society.

That is why the whole of society will have to pay in the coming budget unfortunately :-(
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It's absolutely untrue that the whole of society lost the run of themselves. Lots of people didn't go crazy spending like there was no tomorrow. Lots of people have no debt other than their mortgage. Lots of people bought prudently - or prudently didn't buy.
 
but the whole of society
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Orka, I agree, there are plenty of people out there that did not go wild or did not feel "yes another credit card would be great/useful....".

That is why the whole of society will have to pay in the coming budget unfortunately :-(
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Not just this comming budget - generations will be paying!
 
orka said:
I agree. I get annoyed any time I hear someone suggesting any kind of debt forgiveness or 'NAMA for the people'. I have yet to read of or hear about a person or couple struggling financially just because of a large mortgage and negative equity - there is ALWAYS a big pile of personal debt and credit card debt. What were they doing? 20/30/40 years ago, people were delighted to just be able to buy their first house and were happy to just have a mattress and some deckchairs as furniture until they could buy stuff bit by bit. The culture of entitlement went a bit crazy here for a while for some people.
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And in the now retired or rtetiring generation you bought a house and that was it. Your plan was to stay in it for the rest of your life. The idea of the "property ladder" always amused me, as it was so obvious that it could not go on ad infinitum. I bought a house with my wife in 2004 based on a location and size that would allows to have a family and not have to move should something happen like not be able to financially afford to move to a bigger place. In late 2007 we decided to sell and rent, which we have doing since.
Around the time we were getting our mortgage, I was at a party talking to some people who were all going on about their property investments and how much money they got from the bank by "playing them out against eachother to get more money". I mentioned that I had saved for a deposit and some appliances and furniture, and was taking out a mortgage for 85% with a plan to reduce it to below 80% as soon as possible, and that I had no loans or cc debt. People looked at me as if I had two heads. I later overheard two of the guys that had been most vocal about their "property portfolio" saying something to the tune of "that Chris guy is some bumba$$". Unfortunately I have not met them since, because I would love to rub their faces in it.
I agree that the majority of people that are in financial trouble with their mortgages now, are in that position because of other debt they racked up during the boom. That's what you get when you buy into the credit based consumption frenzy. I seriously hope that the outcome of the recession, or more veracious "the correction", is that people will wake up to the fact that a consumption driven economy is completely unsustainable in long and short term. Here's to hoping.
 
truthseeker said:
Even if there wasnt a recession they would be paying back these loans - was it just that credit was so easy to get that people forgot theyd have to pay it back later?
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That's a very good point. If personal, non-mortgage debt, wasn't so high would we be in as a bad a recession at all?
 
The_Banker said:
This thread confirms that it wasn't just the banks and government that lost the run of themselves but the whole of society.

That is why the whole of society will have to pay in the coming budget unfortunately :-(
Click to expand...

People are stuck with their own debt while also being forced to pay someone else's as well through tax increases etc etc

If someone borrowed excessively and is still paying those loans off, irrespective of how tough it is for them and/or how slowly they do it, then their debt is not a burden on any other citizen of this country.

It's the debts of those who aren't paying anything that are costing everyone more than their fair share.
 
orka said:
It's absolutely untrue that the whole of society lost the run of themselves. Lots of people didn't go crazy spending like there was no tomorrow. Lots of people have no debt other than their mortgage. Lots of people bought prudently - or prudently didn't buy.
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Absolutely right, but the mistakes of some are now being paid for by everyone. That is the most unjust and unfair society I can think of. It is not about helping out people that have fallen on hard times. It is about teaching people a hard lesson of life.


pinkyBear said:
Not just this comming budget - generations will be paying!
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This is what sickens me most. My infant daughter will be paying for the mistakes of some, made at a time when she wasn't even born yet. That is if she chooses to stay and pay the taxes.
 
Chris said:
I was at a party talking to some people who were all going on about their property investments and how much money they got from the bank by "playing them out against eachother to get more money". I mentioned that I had saved for a deposit and some appliances and furniture, and was taking out a mortgage for 85% with a plan to reduce it to below 80% as soon as possible, and that I had no loans or cc debt. People looked at me as if I had two heads. I later overheard two of the guys that had been most vocal about their "property portfolio" saying something to the tune of "that Chris guy is some bumba$$".
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Yes, i went to a wedding abroad in 2007 and a group of people at the wedding were of the same ilk. They thought I was some kind of idiot because I only bought a small apartment with a manageable mortgage. Everyone of them had a home and one or two investment properties and was planning the next one. Id love to know how theyve gotten on since.
 
The first time I noticed this type of attitude was during the Eircom floatation. I remember at the time colleagues getting bank loans to buy these shares and I was told they were a 'sure' thing. I never bought any but was told I was crazy at the time.
 
Shawady said:
.. the Eircom floatation.
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I was being all smug reading this thread cos I never indulged in the folly that others did.

Then I read this post and had a flashback to the conversations we (me and the OH) had about how much to borrow to buy eircom shares. I think we went for 20K each. I managed to get out at a premium of €1 per share. she stayed to the (very) bitter end.

The loss outweighed the gain.

A waiting list for a specific handbag in BTs was one early indication, I recall, that things were getting out of hand.
 
TarfHead said:
A waiting list for a specific handbag in BTs was one early indication, I recall, that things were getting out of hand.
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a waiting list for a hand bag???!!!!! i hope the bag was practical? :D

Does anyone think that in the boom years that there was a culture of 'mob' mentality? for instance Chris aluded to talking to someone who had a property portfolio and looking to increase it, and others were doing the same basically because it was the done thing? i wonder if people ever stopped and thought just for a moment about the upcoming years and how their assets would effect them and how to dispose of them? It's all a kind of keeping up with the jones' culture. anyways that just my 2 cents.
 
burger1979 said:
a waiting list for a hand bag???!!!!! i hope the bag was practical? :D
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It was such a good bag it didn't even have a name

It was called the "no name" bag.
A lot of them ended up on the ebay, people looking for a quick profit
 
Absolutely agree with all the comments.. I don't even go near that forum because it annoys me so much, partly because of some people's greed and stupidity but mainly because of the attitude of some that it wasn't their fault, everyone else is to blame and they should be let off with paying it all back.

The phrase "nama for the people" makes me want to bang my head off the desk. What, I am also expected to stump up for the girl I used to work with , bought a 260,000 house, then borrowed her "going out money" each month off the credit union, or the 2 sneering idiot ex friends of 15 years who didn't invite us to their wedding or child's christening because as renters we weren't their type of people....

Another couple - with 4 young children - we know recently moaned they had to cancel their VHI as they could no longer afford it but have their separate and joint nights out each weekend...some people still can't get their priorities right

I actually enjoy repaying the smugness by reminding people we don't owe anyone anything
 
lucky enough most people I know are level headed and never got into the whole property portfolio and who had the biggest car etc. etc., I've always enjoyed the craic of being slagged as a cheapstake/never misses a trick/always looking for an angle.

BUT I think those of us who didnt go mad should keep the higher ground and not bait those in trouble. I feel sorry for anyone who feels compelled to pay to upkeep an image, or who is just plain stupid and spends recklessly. Money worries are tough, even tougher if you havent the cop on to try to fix them, or have the realisation that is all your own fault (& worse still if you're in denial/are delusional and think its someone elses fault). Lets avoid schadenfreud (hopelessly misspelled no doubt) but basically means taking pleasure in others misery.

p.s. I thought what most people mean by "NAMA for the people" is not throwing people out of their houses or giving them some help if their house is repossessed and they still owe part of a loan (i.e. were in negative equity) - dont think it was ever about paying off credit cards.
 
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