Penalty points for speeding....

JamesGG

Registered User
Messages
106
Yes before we go down that road I am guilty, I shouldnt have done 81k in a 50k zone, and I am sorry.

I got the fine in the post but everyone is telling me to let it go to court because you get hit with a bigger fine but due the the way things are with the court clerks, licence numbers and the RSA you wont get the points, it was on TV3 news a while ago.

So I am thinking do I take the chance and pay the bigger fine to escape points ( I will still be pleading guilty by the way). Opinions? Thanks.
 
Go to court ... and your points will be doubled.

Pay the fine, take your two points now and count yourself lucky.
 
I would have to agree with paddy, I think after it been highlighted the whole cock up about points not been put on the guilty persons record I think they will make sure they are now, I'd pay the fine and cut my losses, when you renew your insurance 2 points sounds better than 4
 
If it were me i'd be with Paddy and Sansan - better know the fine and points now rather than the risk factor in court.
 
I'd agree with Paddy, if you go to court and your points are doubled it could affect your next insurance premium.
 
I'd agree with Paddy, if you go to court and your points are doubled it could affect your next insurance premium.

Yes, if it goes to court, it will be a conviction rather than a fixed notice offence. Insurance companies treat both very differently.
 
Pay the fine and take your two penalty points. Don't go to Court - it will be recorded as a conviction as Leo said.
 
go to court, the way this country is been run loophole's seem to last for years...
 
The loop-hole has been exploited but it isn't as clear cut a let off as the media portrayed.

It is only in some courts and in certain cases that the clerks haven't sent the details to the RSA. It isn't true to say it is in every court case.

Second, and most important, the vast majority of the cases the media mentioned weren't domestic licensed drivers exploiting a loop-hole it was mainly two different categories: foreign licences (e.g. UK or other country which cannot be endorsed here) and people without a licence in the first place.

The number of Irish full licence holders who managed to exploit this administrative failure (which it was rather than a loop-hole) wasn't as large or common as suggested.

But you can always go to court and find out if you wish.
 
Consider the following defence..

The state isn't allowed to offer inducements in order that you plead guilty.... you have a right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty and you should have a right to defend yourself in court, and to have the case proven against you, without threats of increased penalties.

However you are being offered an inducement to plead guilty (a lesser penalty), which I believe is wrong. I have asked this question before and never really got an answer.

It would cost money to take this approach.. but if sucessful the system would have to be changed for everybody.

Any thoughts on this by anybody?
 
Consider the following defence..

The state isn't allowed to offer inducements in order that you plead guilty.... you have a right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty and you should have a right to defend yourself in court, and to have the case proven against you, without threats of increased penalties.

However you are being offered an inducement to plead guilty (a lesser penalty), which I believe is wrong. I have asked this question before and never really got an answer.

It would cost money to take this approach.. but if successful the system would have to be changed for everybody.

Any thoughts on this by anybody?
Why would you want to clog up the courts system with tens of thousands of speeding cases?
 
Why would you want to clog up the courts system with tens of thousands of speeding cases?
It would be a good protest against the government, and the way this country is run.

I also fully agree with JoeBallantin.
 
Complainer, I hadn't thought of it in exactly those terms before. I don't want the courts clogged up. But I do want people to be treated fairly.

I'd support the use of digital speeding cameras everywhere, and a zero tolerance approach, so everyone who speeds gets caught, and fined... people would quickly get the message and slow down. The only change would have to be appropriate speed limits on all roads.

I'd support zero tolerance on all minor crimes, like broken lights, obscured registration plates, tax out of date... too many people being let off for these things, and many such people are serial offenders with no respect for the law... which is unfair on everyone else.

Many people wouldn't challange speeding tickets even if the penalties were the same in court,,as it's awkward to take a day off work to go to court... however now, with the threats of increased penalties it's a tough decision to go to court, even if you are being hard done by.. for example, if the speed limit sign is broken, obscured or missing, or if the speed gun doesn't issue a printed receipt, as was required a few years ago, and may still be (it was plainly written into the legislation), yet the guns didn't issue receipts, and the state issued fines for this, even though they knew they couldn't secure convictions in the courts. So people were intimidated, threatened and steam-rollered into paying fines which they shouldn't have had to pay, due to the imcompetence of the legislators, and the state not providing the guards with the correct equipment.

The guards are now considering a work to rule type thing, where they won't use their personal mobiles or Sat Nav systems... and it is a good point, why should they use their personal equipment in the course of their job?

Incidentally, does anyone know the name of the legal principle which disallows the state offering inducements for pleading guilty to crimes?, I would like to research it a little...



edited to add...
Here's a link to thread on Boards, outlining a problem with the Road Traffic laws, to do with a printout being needed for a sucessful speeding prosecution..
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=162528

This may or may not have been changed since, but people should be able to go to Court to offer this defence, without threats of increased penalties. It's the legislators that got the printout thing wrong, not the offending motorist.

I got a speeding ticket, once in ten years, but I didn't pay, as I intended to offer this defence, around 2005. But I never got a summons, but I did get a notice of a conviction in my absence, ... so I had to appeal on the grounds of no summons.. but the Guard said he posted it by regular post, which the judge accepted!!! Not by hand, or by registered post, but by regular post.So I had to appeal again to the Circuit Court, where the state chose not to contest the case... and so I 'won', but only after much heartache and days off work.. the point is I was left with the impression that the state will steamroller convictions, with the help of the district court judge, who up until then I thought were very fair and impartial. The Circuit Court Judge was very nice to be fair.
 
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