PAO agreed but never issued - now a problem.

dowtchaboy

Registered User
Messages
4
I need advice on a tricky situation involving a getting the benefits of a defined contribution pension plan to my separated wife where a pension adjustment order was never issued. This is a 50% financial, 50% legal issue, and 100% frustrating.

We separated 15 years ago. It was bloody. She ended up with the mortgage-free house, I ended up with renting an apartment. Whatever. As part of the court-ordered separation, we took her solicitor's suggestion that she should get the largest of 4 pension plans assigned 100% to her as the simplest and cleanest solution to splitting the pensions (about 35% of the total). I was a 20% Director and Trustee of the 2-man company pension plan.

Roll on to pension date - and the problems begin. The Life Offices were contacted re making the pension arrangements. Firstly, they told me that there was no PAO in place. I referred to our court separation agreement but even though this had a specific paragraph identifying the policy number and that it was to go to her, this in itself does not constitute a PAO. Secondly, they told me that the solicitors' advice was in error. They say that since all 4 of the policies (from the same employment) have to be paid out on the same date and are to some degree interdependent, one policy cannot be extracted or treated differently (eg re 25% lump sum, annuity vs ARF etc) than the others. A non-practicing Barrister friend thinks this is bollox.

My solicitor says to get the PAO now could be expensive and slow. Normally, he says, a PAO is sought and issued within months of a separation. Apparently, the Family Law courts are backed up for 9 months. He thinks we would have to rebuild the case and have 2 solicitors and all the paperwork. Her solicitor is long retired, my old solicitor says my files are long shredded.

The registrar at the court where we got the separation was able to nab the relevant file before it went to off-site archive storage, and has indicated she would "try" to accelerate any application, but no guarantees. My solicitor thinks it might be quicker and easier to get a divorce. (I hope not)

My wife is so freaked at the idea of going back to Court she told me to just keep it - but in all fairness we did agree to it and I'd like to meet my commitments. She does have a house, I don't, and she would have been by far the highest earner for the last 15 years.

The life companies don't care - they don't have a PAO and would like to make the payments 100% to my name ASAP. I have asked my broker/agent if there is any method to ringfence 'her' amount - maybe to put her amount in a second ARF in my name (or 75%, with 25% in cash from the lump sum), or maybe a Buy-out Bond, or some vehicle that has no charges and can be transferred by a PAO to her ARF. Nobody seems to know. If I have to wait, possibly into 2019 to get the PAO I'll be 2 years without any pension benefit, and without a house. I do have the full OAP.

Yes, I could take the 100% and just pay her the cash lump sum, and the 5% distribution each year, but one of us would end up paying more tax than we need to, and she does not want to be "tied" to me in any way.

I'd appreciate advice or even a good contact where I could pay for advice (but as I'm on the OAP, not too expensive!). Apologies for the length - I've kept it as short as I could.
 
I would stand back from it and look at the facts as you’ve presented them. She has earned far more than you over the last 15 years. She has a house. She has told you that she doesn’t want it! You seem to want to open up this can of worms through some misguided sense of honour. Accept what she’s saying and forget about it.
 
I would stand back from it and look at the facts as you’ve presented them. She has earned far more than you over the last 15 years. She has a house. She has told you that she doesn’t want it! You seem to want to open up this can of worms through some misguided sense of honour. Accept what she’s saying and forget about it.
Thanks for the reply. Not having to hand over the 1/3 of my pension would make my life much easier for sure. However, I wanted to find out if there was a simple way of carrying out the original intent. Then I could decide what I should do. I'm an engineer so I tend to want to gather facts forever before I make a decision! It's not just a "sense of honour", by the way - it's self-preservation - I'm still stinging at some of the ambushes and trickery carried out by her solicitor, stuff that is really not in her nature. So I'd like to keep on the right side of the Law, both in fact and in spirit.
 
Thanks for the reply. Not having to hand over the 1/3 of my pension would make my life much easier for sure. However, I wanted to find out if there was a simple way of carrying out the original intent. Then I could decide what I should do. I'm an engineer so I tend to want to gather facts forever before I make a decision! It's not just a "sense of honour", by the way - it's self-preservation - I'm still stinging at some of the ambushes and trickery carried out by her solicitor, stuff that is really not in her nature. So I'd like to keep on the right side of the Law, both in fact and in spirit.

If she spent less time ambushing you and more time in completing the paperwork to put the legal agreement into force, your wife would have your pension and there wouldn't be this mess.

But I'm with Gordon, your wife says she doesn't want it so keep it for yourself.

The insurance company will only apply the PAO when they are given it by the solicitor. If they haven't received one, it is PAO free.


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
I too agree with Geko. Don't open this can of worms. Even your wife has suggested it. That's how painful it is for her.
 
Thank you all for your replies. If I find out anything that might be useful to a future reader of this thread (greetings, oh person from the future!) I'll post it here.

By the way I do have it "in writing" I guess - it was a text message conversation which I have backed up to Gmail using the handy Android app "SMS Backup+", and I have printed it off.

By the way if "Boaber" ever reappears on the forum I'd like to make contact.
 
I don't know boaber but I've sent him/her a PM pointing to this thread.
Thank you. I couldn't see any way of PMing him/her from their profile. He/she was actually in the pension/life office business when they last posted a few years back and might have a tip or two.
 
Back
Top