P.C. gone mad

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Murt10

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Now the PC brigade are out to get the 3 little pigs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7204635.stm

Muslims "might" find it offensive.

Not so long ago a Christmas Cribs in a hospital removed because Muslims "might" find it offensive. This year we had no Nativity play in a Dublin Creche as Muslims "might" find it offensive. So what! Are we to live our lives governed by what someone else feels may be offensive, however slightly, to some other group.

In my opinion the people who are doing all this cancelling and drawing attention to our differences are doing far more damage to good relations, and creating resentment, between the various nationalities and creeds, than would ever be done, if they just minded their own business and let us live in relative harmony

This is the real world we are living in. What right have we to assume that Muslims or other religions are going to find every little thing deeply offensive. I'm quite happy to go about my business and let Muslims get on with theirs and I'm sure that the vast majority of them feel the same.



Murt
 
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I really think the world in walking on egg shells when it comes to the Muslim Religion.I think we should treat them the way we treat all other religion's,with respect but not been afraid that they might get violent due to something like a cartoon sketch in a newspaper.Sometimes it feels to me that they are just looking for an excuse and by this I mean a tiny section of the Muslim people.
 
I think a lot of this pc rubbish is borne out fear rather than respect. Imho it's not the various groups who "might" be offended that are clamouring to ban the 3 little pigs/Christmas nativity etc, it's these idiots with too much time on their hands trying to placate groups that don't need placating.

The following seem to have slipped through the net (no pun intended):

Humpty Dumpty (might offend some overweight people)
Little Red Riding Hood - (possibly cause offense to the vertically challanged equestrian mob)
Big Bad Wolf (offense to dog lovers of all kinds)
Little Red Hen (we can't be sure Chicken Licken is organic/free range, safer to ban her)
The Ugly Duckling
 
Murt10 said:
Not so long ago a Christmas Cribs in a hospital removed because Muslims "might" find it offensive.
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It's not just some Muslims who might find sectarian religious paraphernalia in publicly funded hospitals and other institutions objectionable! We live in a country/society that generally attempts to be pluralistic, non-denominational and non-sectarian. Institutions which are run funded by the public should make allowances for this. Those that choose to go it alone and run privately can do what they want. I have been a visitor to hospitals in which sectarian religious paraphenalia was on display around individual bed units. If I was a patient I would certainly ask for them to be removed. When my wife was admitted to the Rotunda to give birth she was registered RC without being asked. On discovering this we made a formal complaint about this which was in breach of their patient charter but never heard anything back.
 
I agree with most of what you are saying ClubMan, but "sectarian"?

Can you give an example?
 
I have been a visitor to hospitals in which sectarian religious paraphenalia was on display around individual bed units. If I was a patient I would certainly ask for them to be removed.
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If they mean nothing to you, then why should you care if they are there or not? Unless of course their presence were directly interfering with the level of care.

Is it not like objecting to the colour of the décor?
 
I'm inclined to agree with you, Murt.

My own feeling is that as individuals, most people of differing faiths get on together. Those who do not, would be arguing about something else if they didn't have religion to argue about.

The average person is able to deal with being offended. They get over it. One cannot get through life if they are sensitive to everything that they don't like. They have to get over it and get on with their lives. I don't think that the Muslim community in Ireland are offended by the trappings of our faiths and traditions. Just one or two. For instance, did somebody who represents the Muslims in Ireland ask that the crib in Templemore be removed, or did one person object to it.

Perhaps its personality.
Could it be that all this 'offending' stuff, is that a particular personality type takes issue with something, and then manages to convince everyone else that it is something that they too should be upset about ?

Maybe I am naive, but it has been my experience that once everyone's religion and beliefs are respected, there are no arguments.
An aunt of mine, a devout Catholic, has a Muslim girl as her carer. Last Christmas, and the one before, she brought her husband with her one evening, to help her put up my aunts Christmas decorations. These included a crib, and no one saw fit to get offended.
 
"We live in a country/society that generally attempts to be pluralistic, non-denominational and non-sectarian."

I don't quite agree - at least in the context given. Perhaps, it would be better to say that I don't think Catholic Schools or hospitals are inconsistent with a non-sectarian society; The predominant group in our society is a mixture of of devout, moderate and semi-lapsed Catholics, with admittedly a strong and growing sentiment that the separation of Church and State is a good thing - which it may well be. Where I differ is in the idea that people who want to make their religion part of their lives should be denied the same access to state funding as people who want to keep religion out of their lives. If a group of Catholics want to set up a school or a hospital with a Catholic ethos, then their access to state funding should, in my opinion, be on the same terms as a similar institution with no Catholic ethos. Economics do of course play a part; There is clearly a market in most parts of Ireland for a Catholic school or hospital. There is clearly not a market for the same number of institutions for people of other religions. Also, there are clearly some friction points - but the cure (of booting out the Church from schools) would in my opinion be far worse than the disease.

In years to come, I think there will be a re-evaluation of the role of organised religion in our country. We are already seeing the beginnings of it to a certain extent: - nowadays, more so than ever before, it seems the chronic underfunding of our primary schools is a hot news item. What none of our media seem able to remark upon is that - when the Catholic Church more or less ran the primary system - money was found for the shortfall in state funding. I have not seem any commentator frame the current funding debate in terms of saying that we are now having to deal with the deficit that the Church used to fill. The reality is that it would literally stick in the craw of almost any mainstream journalist to give credit to the Catholic church for the good work that was done here down the years. The story is much the same in the hospitals - time was when there was always an old dear (or old dragon) of a nun prowling the corridoors who knew to the penny the cost of every bandage and catheter, and who knew how to account for every one of them. Am I alone in thinking that this was probably a good thing, and that we miss her? Certainly it would feel that way if you were assess the views of our society based upon the output of our mainstream media.

I don't know where we are going to end up in Ireland in terms of Church-State separation, but we are currently in transition. It seems to me that this might be part of a trend or that it might be part of a cycle where we see things turn back the other way a little. (Incidentally, I saw a newspaper article last week where it was claimed in the UK that the biggest group for conversion to Catholicism is those families who want to get their children into Catholic schools - it seems fair to say that this is a relatively objective endorsement of the Catholic School system)

I think it is too soon to tell what way we will go in this country. I don't think Clubman's views (as expressed) represent what you might call the mainstream, though I do acknowledge that the current trend seems to be that way.
 
Personally I think if you move to Ireland then you should know that it is a predominantly catholic country. Having done that you then can't complain that we have Catholic traditions and festivals.

I'm not religious but have no time for people who choose to move here and then complain about how we do things!
 
Caveat said:
I agree with most of what you are saying ClubMan, but "sectarian"?
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Belonging to a particular sect - such as religious paraphernalia belonging to Catholics or Christians.

leghorn said:
If they mean nothing to you
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I never said that they mean nothing to me. Quite the opposite - I said that I found them objectionable in a publicly funded institution. If it was a privately funded institution I would feel the same but would obviously have to put up with it.
 
MOB said:
"We live in a country/society that generally attempts to be pluralistic, non-denominational and non-sectarian."

...

I don't know where we are going to end up in Ireland in terms of Church-State separation
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Don't we already have it - particularly since the effective disestablishment of the Catholic Church a while back through our own 5th amendment which was passed by 85% of the voters? And do you really disagree that the civil state, for all its faults, does not at least strive towards being pluralistic etc.?
I don't think Clubman's views (as expressed) represent what you might call the mainstream
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Can't disagree with you there. But I'm working on it!

What about those who were born and reared here and object to religious intrusions into public life and publicly funded institutions? Do you think that we should leave? Or just shut up?
 
ClubMan said:
Belonging to a particular sect - such as religious paraphernalia belonging to Catholics or Christians.
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Yes I know what it means, literally, it's just that the word is emotive and in practice is almost always used in a very prejorative sense.

But I agree with the gist of what you are saying anyway.
 
ClubMan said:
What about those who were born and reared here and object to religious intrusions into public life and publicly funded institutions? Do you think that we should leave? Or just shut up?
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I don't think anyone should ever be told to leave or "shut up" simply because they disagree with aspects of tradition or culture. That said, I don't think any tradition or element of culture should be abandoned simply because a minority claims that they are offended, affronted or hurt by it. For example I don't at all like to see so-called "Republican" groups parading on our streets with paramilitary emblems and paraphenalia. Nor do I have any time for the indymedia/hippie types who like to make a nuisance of themselves in public areas from time to time. However just because these groups offend or affront me does not mean that their actions should be suppressed.

Its a different story if there are strong public policy grounds for abandoning certain traditions, for example the banning of dogfighting or cockfighting on animal welfare grounds, or the regulation of public events on safety & public order grounds.

Genuine pluralism means respecting and accommodating the rights of others, not merely insisting that one's own rights and preferences be given priority over those of others.
 
I never said that they mean nothing to me. Quite the opposite - I said that I found them objectionable in a publicly funded institution. If it was a privately funded institution I would feel the same but would obviously have to put up with it.
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So is it how the religious objects are paid for that you object to? If this is the case, are you sure they're not funded by the staff and/or patients, and not the public purse?

Do public hospitals have a budget for such items?
 
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